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HOW  TO  BECOME  AN 
EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 


HOW  TO  BECOME  AN 
EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 


By  ROBERT  F.   ROSE 

Author  of  "The  Robert  F.  Rose   Expert  Shorthand  Course,"  "How   to 

Become    a    Private    Secret  dry,"    "How    to    Construct    Shorthand 

Phrases,"  "How  to  Do  Law  Office  Stenography,"  etc.,  etc. 


EXCLUSIVELY  FOR  THE  USE  OF  STUDENTS  OF  THE 
ROBEET  F.  ROSE  EXPERT   SHORTHAND  COURSE 


Price  $2.50 


FUNK   &   WAGNALLS    COMPANY 

IT  I!  I, IS  I  IK  US 

NKW    YORK    AND    LONDON 

1917 


COPYRIGHT,  1917,  BY 

ROBERT    F.    ROSE 

Printed  in  the  United   States  of  America 


Copyright  under  the  Articles  of  the  Copyright   Convention  of  the 
Pan-American   Republics  and   the  United   States.    August   11.    1910 


CONTENTS 


COURT  REPORTING  PREPARATION 7 

Shading 7 

Proper  Names       8 

The  Numerals        8 

P            Rate   of   Speed      : .      . .  8 

Editing 10 

Dictation   Practise         11 

Talking  Machine  Dictation 12 

I \TI.KST\TK  COMMERCE  COMMISSION  INVESTIGATIONS     ..  14 

P             Phrase  Lists 17 

»              Interstate    Commerce    Commission    Hearing   Tran- 
script         42 

Index  of  Witnesses      43 

PROCEEDINGS 46 

DEPOSITION  WORK       132 

Phrase  Lists 137 

Index  of  Testimony 155 

Transcript  of  Deposition 156 


COURT  REPORTING  PREPARATION 

It  is  presupposed  that  the  student  of  this  book  has 
thoroughly  mastered  all  the  principles  contained  in  the 
Robert  F.  Rose  Expert  Shorthand  Course,  and  has 
.given  the  lessons  on  Court  and  Convention  Reporting 
the  thorough  study  called  for  in  them.  The  object  of 
this  book  is,  not  only  to  give  further  practise  matter 
for  this  particular  branch  of  shorthand  work,  but  to 
show  l>y  voluminous  examples  and  illustrations,  short- 
hand as  written  in  practical  reporting  work. 

The  shorthand  notes  contained  herein  are  from  mat- 
ter actually  reported  by  me,  and  while  not  drawn  with 
the  mathematical  precision  of  the  notes  contained  in  the 
lessons,  they  are  extraordinarily  well  executed  free- 
hand shorthand  notes.  It  is  not  expected  that  you  will 
make  nearly  so  beautiful  or  accurate  notes,  but  persis- 
tent, plodding  practise  will  make  beautiful  notes  pos- 
sible. 

SHADING 

One  cannot  write  the  outlines  too  accurately,  and  the 
shaded  strokes  should  be  made  heavier  than  the  others 
ivheiiever  it  is  possible  to  do  so.  But  here  is  a  confes- 
sion. Using  a  pen,  which  is  the  proper  instrument  with 
which  to  write  shorthand,  it  is  at  times  impossible  to 
show  the  shading  of  the  heavy  strokes.  As  a  rule,  court 
and  general  reporting  requires  the  writing  of  short- 
hand at  an  extremely  high  rate  of  speed.  Frequently, 
there  is  no  time  to  shade  the  horizontal  strokes,  and  it 
will  be  seen  that  manv  of  the  outlines  contained  in  the 


EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 

convention  reporting  notes  given  in  Lesson  Twenty-five 
of  the  course  are  not  properly  shaded.  Nevertheless, 
they  are  easily  read. 

Do  not  understand  that,  when  it  is  possible  to  indi- 
cate the  more  forcibly  pronounced  sounds  by  the  heav- 
ier stroke,  the  shading  should  be  done  away  with. 
Shorthand  cannot  be  written  too  legibly,  and  the  more 
care  taken  in  this  respect  the  better  will  be  the  result. 

PROPEE  NAMES 

The  omission  of  the  underlines  to  show  proper  names 
is  intentional.  It  is  not  recommended  that  the  plan  of 
indicating  proper  names  should  be  avoided.  On  the 
contrary,  every  device  which  will  aid  in  reading  short- 
hand notes  should  be  used  in  case  the  matter  taken  is 
not  given  at  such  a  rate  of  speed  as  to  preclude  its 
making.  It  will  be  seen  that  the  proper  names  can  be 
read  without  hesitation,  even  though  they  are  not  in- 
dicated by  the  distinguishing  mark.  These  names  are 
made  on  the  hypothesis  that  they  are  being  taken  at  top 
speed,  and  all  unnecessary  writing  is  eliminated. 

THE    NUMERALS 

Outlines  representing  figures  must  always  be  given 
the  distinguishing  mark,  else  there  would  be  an  attempt 
to  read  them  for  words.  You  should  train  yourself  to 
underline  these  outlines  without  conscious  thought,  so 
that  when  they  are  written  the  hand  will  instinctively 
make  the  underline. 

EATE  OF  SPEED 

The  rate  of  speed  necessary  for  all  kinds  of  report- 
ing work  is  a  question  difficult  to  answer.  I  have  known 
many  excellent  reporters,  capable  of  making  a  record 
which  would  correctly  reflect  the  proceedings  of  any 
case  in  court,  who  could  not  write  more  than  one  hun- 
dred and  fifty  words  a  minute.  On  the  other  hand, 
there  arc  others  who  can  maintain  a  speed  of  two  him- 


EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 

dred  words  a  minute  and  more,  whose  transcripts  would 
be  far  loss  satisfactory  to  their  clients. 

Xo  matter  ho\v  1'ast  it  is  j>os>il>le  for  one  to  write, 
there  are  times  when  no  human  being  can  report  every- 
thing said.  Two  or  three  attorneys  may  participate  in 
acrimonious  debate  and  all  talk  at  the  same  time.  Then 
it  requires  a  cool  head  and  quick  determination  to  ascer- 
tain the  important  matter  to  be  preserved  by  shorthand, 
and  that  is  where  an  experienced  shorthand  reporter 
with  less  ability  as  a  fast  writer  will  be  of  infinitely 
greater  value. 

Some  cases  are  so  slow  that  a  speed  of  one  hundred 
and  twenty-five  words  a  minute  will  be  sufficient  to  re- 
port everything.  Others  will  require  double  that  speed. 
For  instance,  in  an  Interstate  Commerce  hearing  in 
Jacksonville,  Florida,  the  day  following  the  reporting 
of  the  one  given  in  this  book,  a  witness  on  the  stand 
forty  minutes  talked  at  such  a  rate  of  speed  that  a 
counting  of  the  words  in  the  transcript  showed  an 
average  speed  much  greater  than  two  hundred  words  a 
minute. 

The  instance  cited  was  an  extraordinary  one.  It 
could  have  been  reported  by  writers  limited  to  one  hun- 
dred and  seventy-five  words  a  minute  by  judicious  con- 
densing and  editing.  It  would  not  have  been  a  verbatim 
report,  but  would  have  given  the  Interstate  Commerce 
Commission  the  full  information  necessary  upon  which 
to  base  a  decision. 

In  his  excellent  work  on  this  subject,  Mr.  Willard  B. 
Bottome  gives  a  table  of  cases  reported  by  him,  show- 
ing speed  in  writing  from  one  hundred  and  eleven  and  a 
half  words  a  minute  (the  testimony  in  this  case  being 
taken  through  an  interpreter)  to  two  hundred  and  six 
and  one-fourth  words  in  a  personal  injury  case  in  which 
both  the  attorney  and  witness  were  rapid  talkers.  The 
average  speed  in  these  cases  was  based  on  an  hour's 
take  in  each  case. 


EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 

My  judgment  is  that  one  should  not  attempt  to  report 
any  kind  of  a  case  unless  he  can  maintain  a  speed  for 
an  hour  of  at  least  one  hundred  and  seventy-five  words 
a  minute. 

EDITING 

The  editing  of  testimony  should  be  done  with  extreme 
caution,  but  there  are  times  when  it  must  be  resorted 
to.  Some  attorneys  do  not  care  to  pay  for  useless  tes- 
timony and  frequently  they  will  request  the  reporter  to 
transcribe  the  testimony  in  such  a  manner  as  to  fully 
preserve  the  record,  but  to  omit  any  superfluous  mat- 
ter. In  such  instances  absolute  repetitions  of  ques- 
tions and  answers  may  be  avoided.  Generally,  how- 
ever, the  attorney  desires  every  word  contained  in  the 
questions  and  answers,  and  enough  of  the  arguments 
on  objections  to  protect  the  rights  of  the  party.  This 
has  been  explained  in  the  court  reporting  lessons  in  the 
course. 

In  some  states  the  attorneys  will  request  the  sten- 
ographer to  write  up  testimony  "in  the  narrative" 
that  is,  to  condense  it  without  transcribing  it  in  ques- 
tion and  answer  form.  Then,  there  must  be  editing  of 
the  testimony.  For  instance,  the  first  portion  of  typical 
testimony  of  a  witness  would  be  transcribed: 

"My  name  is  John  Smith;  residence,  428 
Oakland  Boulevard,  Chicago ;  I  know  the  com- 
plainant and  defendant  in  this  case;  have 
known  complainant  about  fifteen  years  and  de- 
fendant about  four  years." 

This  narrative  form  does  not  prevail  in  all  states,  and 
is  only  ordered  by  the  attorney  in  order  to  save  himself 
the  work  of  condensing  the  testimony  from  the  full 
record  for  printing  purposes. 

Tn  hearings  before  investigating  or  other  bodies,  or 
in  proceedings  before  an  examiner  of  the  Interstate 
Commerce  Commission,  as  shown  herein,  there  should 

10 


EXPERT  COl'llT  REPORTER 

be  no  editing.  Every  word  spoken  by  tlie  attorneys, 
witnesses,  examiner,  and  interested  parties  must  be 
reproduced.  At  times  there  will  be  many  railroad  of- 
ficials who  may  interject  questions  or  remarks,  and  the 
hearing  may  take  on  a  semblance  of  a  town  hall  meet- 
ing. In  such  cases,  however,  the  examiner,  who  is  ex- 
perienced in  presiding  over  hearings,  will  generally 
limit  the  talk  to  one  party  at  a  time. 

DICTATION    PRACTISE 

Repeated  dictation  of  the  same  matter  is  the  best 
practise.  It  trains  the  inind  and  hand  harmoniously  to 
work  together.  It  impresses  upon  the  mind  every  out- 
line for  word  or  phrase  taken  in  the  dictation.  It 
familiarizes  you  with  the  outlines  to  such  an  extent  that 
you  are  able  to  write  them  correctly  at  a  high  rate  of 
speed,  and  gives  you  that  thorough  acquaintance  with 
shorthand  notes  which  is  necessary  to  read  without  hesi- 
tation. 

In  order  to  give  you  the  necessary  practise,  and  that 
you  may  secure  the  very  best  results,  there  is  set  forth 
a  method  of  practise  which  I  have  tried  with  surprising 
success.  There  are  seventy-six  pages  of  practise  mat- 
ter contained  in  the  Interstate  Commerce  Commission 
investigation,  and  the  deposition  printed  in  this  book, 
as  well  as  the  shorthand  notes  of  an  equal  number  of 
pages.  It  is  not  enough  merely  to  take  this  matter  from 
dictation.  We  must  become  so  familiar  with  every 
word  and  phrase  outline  that  it  will  be  possible  to  write 
it  without  conscious  thought.  The  practise  of  writing 
isolated  phrases  is  good,  but  is  not  enough;  we  must 
write  those  phrases  as  they  occur  in  sentences. 

There  is  consequently  given  a  list  of  the  phrases  con- 
tained in  each  page  of  the  matter  to  be  received  from 
dictation.  Each  page  of  these  notes  should  be  given 
repeated  practise.  First,  you  should  read  the  short- 
hand notes,  analyzing  each  outline  and  determining 

11 


EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 

what  principles  are  employed  in  the  word  and  phrase 
construction.  Then,  dictation  of  the  phrase  list  should 
be  had  as  directed,  writing  each  phrase  at  least  fifty 
times.  After  this  is  done  you  may  take  from  dictation 
the  particular  page  to  which  the  list  refers,  carefully 
writing  the  notes  according  to  the  outlines  given. 

TALKING   MACHINE    DICTATION 

And  this  should  be  done  at  a  rate  of  speed  at  which 
you  can  make  your  best  notes.  Do  not  sacrifice  precision 
and  accuracy  for  speed  in  writing.  If  you  employ  a 
reader,  caution  him  against  reading  too  fast.  I  have 
used,  and  still  use,  a  talking  machine  to  which  I  dictate 
the  practise  matter  at  the  rate,  of  speed  desired. 

In  the  last  few  years  there  have  been  times  when  I 
have  been  out  of  the  shorthand  business.  However,  I 
have  never  allowed  my  interest  in  the  subject  to  wane 
and  have  kept  up  my  shorthand  practise.  I  have  my 
talking  machine,  which  is  my  dictator  at  my  home,  and 
evenings  not  otherwise  employed  are  devoted  to  this 
practise.  Not  only  in  order  to  retain  the  speed  in 
writing  which  I  may  possess,  but  to  gain  speed,  I  fol- 
low the  method  herein  outlined. 

Two  evenings'  practise  of  two  hours  each  is  not  too 
much  to  devote  to  this  "preliminary"  practise  on  one 
page.  Then  another  record  of  the  same  matter  may  be 
made  on  the  talking  machine,  dictating  it  at  a  higher 
rate  of  speed.  It  should  not  be  so  fast,  however,  as  to 
destroy  the  neatness  of  the  outlines.  That  one  exer- 
cise may  be  taken  for  an  hour  and  a  half.  Then,  you 
may  take  up  the  next  page  and  do  the  same  with  it. 

When  you  have  completed  this  practise  on  one  case, 
yon  may  have  all  of  the  testimony  in  the  case  dictated 
to  you  over  and  over  again.  You  will  find  that  your 
preliminary  practise  has  given  you  ability  to  write  the 
correct  outlines-  at  a  faster  rate  of  speed  and  without 
conscious  effort. 

12 


EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 

But  dictation  is  not  enough.  After  working  up  a 
speed  of  about  one  hundred  and  fifty  words  a  minute, 
you  should  try  your  wings  in  sermon  reporting,  the 
taking  of  speeches  and,  if  possible,  the  writing  of  short- 
hand in  court  simply  for  practise.  Your  first  efforts 
will  be  discouraging,  because  of  surroundings  to  which 
you  are  not  accustomed.  You  may  be  compelled  to 
attempt  to  write  the  shorthand  notes  of  a  sermon  on 
your  knee,  and  you  will  feel  that  the  major  portion  of 
1  he  sermon  has  escaped  you.  The  first  ten  minutes  will 
be  more  difficult  than  the  next  and  the  first  sermon  or 
speech  attempted  to  be  taken  will  be  attended  with  ter- 
rors which  will  dissemble  with  repeated  efforts. 

And  in  all  this  work  you  should  attempt  first  to  write 
good  outlines,  and  second,  to  get  enough  of  what  is 
being  said  to  "make  sense."  In  this  way  you  will  be 
getting  a  training  which  will  be  valuable  to  you  when 
you  come  to  the  actual  shorthand  reporting  and  en- 
counter those  difficult  periods  when  several  people  are 
discussing  some  question  at  the  same  time.  It  will  give 
you  the  ability  to  take  down  the  salient  and  important 
parts  and  to  eliminate  those  words  which  are  not  abso- 
lutely necessary  in  order  to  reproduce  the  "meat"  of 
the  subject. 


13 


INTERSTATE    COMMERCE    COMMISSION 
INVESTIGATIONS 

Notes  are  given  of  an  investigation  conducted 
before  Special  Examiner  J.  Edgar  Smith,  at  Savannah, 
Georgia,  on  the  13th  day  of  January,  1914.  Of  course 
these  are  not  the  actual  notes  taken  at  the  time,  for  two 
very  good  reasons.  The  original  notes  are  on  file  with 
the  shorthand  reporting  firm  which  has  the  contract  for 
the  reporting  of  all  these  hearings.  Even  if  it  were  possi- 
ble for  me  to  get  them,  it  would  be  impracticable  to 
reproduce  them  here  for  the  reason  that  the  original 
notes  were  taken  on  a  larger  size  paper  and  the  tran- 
script would  make  about  three  pages  of  printed  matter. 

In  these  investigations  the  usual  "question  and 
answer"  form  is  not  used.  Whenever  the  examiner  or 
attorneys  or  the  witnesses  speak,  the  transcript  must 
show  their  names.  At  times  in  these  hearings  railroad 
officials  who  are  not  attorneys  will  volunteer  informa- 
tion or  will  ask  questions.  For  instance,  it  will  be 
noted  that  Mr.  W.  J.  Craig  answered  several  inquiries 
of  the  examiner  before  his  name  appeared  in  the  record 
as  a  witness  (see  page  50).  It  was  necessary  to  stop 
the  proceedings  at  that  time  in  order  that  his  name 
could  be  secured  for  the  record. 

The  first  column  of  the  note  book  sheet  is  reserved 
for  the  examiner,  the  second  column  for  the  com- 
plainant's attorney,  and  the  third  column  for  the  de- 
fendant's attorney,  while  the  witness'  answers  are 
written  in  the  wide  column  to  the  right. 

When  exhibits  are  offered  in  evidence  they  are 
marked  with  a  rubber  stamp,  the  name  of  the  witness 
is  shown,  the  proper  exhibit  letter  or  number,  and  the 
date  of  the  offer.  The  notation  showing  the  receipt  of 

14 


EXPKKT  COl.'HT  REPORTER 

an  exhibit  is  consequently  changed  from  that  which 
obtains  in  court  reporting.  An  examination  of  the 
transcript  printed  on  page  68  will  show  the  correct 
form  to  be  used  in  such  cases. 

Not  only  is  it  necessary  to  show  the  date  on  which 
the  hearing  took  place,  but  the  exact  hour  when  it 
started,  and  at  its  close  there  must  be  a  notation  of  the 
exact  time  of  the  close  of  the  proceedings. 

An  examiner  for  the  Interstate  Commerce  Commis- 
sion travels  from  city  to  city  where  hearings  have  been 
set.  The  official  reporter  is  the  custodian  of  the  papers 
filed,  such  as  the  complaint,  answer,  etc.,  and  the  entire 
file  is  known  as  the  "docket."  He  consequently  has  an 
excellent  opportunity  to  examine  the  papers  and  ascer- 
tain the  nature  of  the  proceedings  to  be  had.  He  may 
make  temporary  expedients  to  be  used  in  each  case. 
For  instance,  an  examination  of  the  files  showed  me 
that  the  Atlantic  Coast  Line  Railroad  Company  was  the 
defendant.  On  the  first  page,  after  the  title  and  memo- 
randa necessary  to  get  up  the  first  page  of  the  record, 
I  wrote  "Atlantic  Coast  Line  Kail  road  Company"  and 
after  that  wrote  the  temporary  expedient  employed. 
Knowing  that  it  would  be  referred  to  by  the  witnesses 
as  the  "Atlantic  Coast  Line,"  I  made  an  expedient  for 
those  words.  I  found  that  the  question  was  whether 
the  Fourth  Section  had  been  violated  by  the  prevailing 
rates  from  Monteith  to  Savannah  and  from  Monteith 
to  Ridgeland  and  from  Ridgeland  to  Savannah.  I 
adopted  expedients  for  the  words  "Monteith,"  "Ridge- 
land," "Ridgeland  and  Savannah,"  "Monteith  and 
Ridgeland,"  "Monteith  and  Savannah,"  and  "Fourth 
Section."  The  papers  also  informed  me  that  the  words 
"Tntrastate"  and  "interstate"  would  be  given  in  the 
testimony,  and  I  placed  the  notation  on  my  first  page 
"look  out  for  /^c/'statc  and  />/fn/-state."  Although  I 
knew  from  past  experience  in  reporting  these  investi- 
gations that  these  words  are  used  in  nearly  every  inves- 

15 


EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 

tigation,  I  made  this  note  in  order  to  make  me  more 
cautious  and  to  remind  me  to  listen  more  carefully  to  the 
witnesses  and  attorneys  when  either  of  the  words  was 
spoken. 

Beginning  with  the  following  page  are  given  the 
phrase  lists  for  practise  work  in  connection  with  the 
Interstate  Commerce  Commission  hearing  dictation 
matter.  The  plan  outlined  herein  should  be  followed  if 
the  best  results  are  to  be  obtained.  Follow  the  instruc- 
tions and  the  time  devoted  to  the  work  will  be  a  most 
profitable  investment. 


16 


PHRASE  LISTS 

PAGE  44 

The  following  are  special  temporary  phrases  for  use 
in  this  case  only,  obtained  by  an  examination  of  the 
docket  and  complaint  and  answer  on  file  therein.  They 
should  be  written  from  dictation  at  least  fifty  times  at  a 
rate  of  speed  at  which  you  can  make  neat,  uniform  and 
symmetrical  outlines: 

Atlantic-Coast-Line-Railroad-Company,  Atlantic  -  Coast- 
Line,  Monteith,  Ridgeland,  Ridgeland-and-Savannah,  Mon- 
teith-and-Ridgeland,  Monteith-and-Savannah,  fourth-section, 
state-commission,  railroad-commission,  Georgia-Commission, 
South-Carolina-Commission,  interstate,  intrastate. 

PAGE  46 

The  following  phrases  should  be  written  from  dicta- 
tion at  least  fifty  times  at  a  rate  of  speed  at  which  you 
can  make  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  outlines : 

Interstate-Commerce-Commission,  has-set,  at-this-time-and- 
place,  the-complaint,  against-the,  Atlantic-Coast-Line-Rail- 
road-Company,  this-case-is,  on-the,  six-thousand-forty-two, 
and-was,  twenty-seven,  nineteen-thirteen,  is-the,  yes-sir,  calls- 
attention,  to-the,  that-it-is-not,  from-the-complaint,  to-tell, 
of-the,  fourth-section,  is-in-issue,  and-that,  in-the-event,  asks- 
the,  under-the,  which-is,  protecting-the,  in-question,  should- 
make,  in-connection-with-this,  would-be-made,  in-case-the, 
had-been,  or-the,  sliould-show,  and-waives,  that-it-may-have, 
a-formal,  in-con  nection-with-the,  which-may-be,  in-that,  you- 
may-proceed,  we-will-offer-in-evidence,  a-letter,  I-would-like- 
for-you,  to-state-thc,  of-this,  I-would-like-you-to-state-the, 
upon-which-you,  to-rely. 

After  concluding  the  above  outlined  work,  have  the 
matter  contained  on  page  40  dictated  to  you  fifty 

17 


EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 

times,  limiting  the   speed  to   that   at  which  you  can 
execute  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  notes. 

PAGE  48 

The  following  phrases  should  be  written  from  dicta- 
tion at  least  fifty  times  at  a  rate  of  speed  at  which  you 
can  make  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  outlines : 

We-will-show,  that-the,  from-Ridgeland,  South-Carolina,  to- 
Monteith-Georgia,  sixty-five,  to-Savannah,  twenty-five,  a- 
dollar,  more-than-the,  of -the,  that-there-is,  a-bridge,  for-which, 
any-excess,  be-made,  and-that-it-lies,  Ridgeland-and-Monteith, 
no-such,  charge-is,  for-that-part-of-the,  district-from,  and- 
therefore-the,  Atlantic-Coast-Line,  for-the,'  does-not,  that-is- 
the,  sum-and-substance,  of-it,  there-is-no-question,  as-to-the, 
rate-of-fare,  is-there,  I-see-in-the,  Atlantic-Coast-Line-Rail- 
road-Company, Monteith-and-Ridgeland,  twenty-four-and-a- 
half,  and-between,  Monteith-and-Savannah,  ten-and-a-half, 
there-will-be,  no-dispute,  about-that,  and-under-the-circum- 
stances,  I-will-not,  to-introduce-the,  with-this,  shows- the,  be- 
tween-Savannah,  rate-of,  is-it-not-fair,  to-assume,  although- 
it-is-not,  in-the,  that-the,  would-be,  and-from-Monteith-to 
Savannah. 

After  concluding  the  above  outlined  work,  have  the 
matter  contained  on  page  48  dictated  to  you  fifty 
times,  limiting  the  speed  to  that  at  which  you  can 
execute  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  notes. 

PAGE  50 

The  following  phrases  should  be  written  from  dicta- 
tion at  least  fifty  times  at  a  rate  of  speed  at  which  you 
can  make  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  outlines: 

AYe-had,  come-down,  to-prove.  if-you-make-the.  from-Ridge- 
laiid-to-Monteith,  and-from-Monteith-to-Savannah,  it-would- 
be,  twenty-five,  that-is-what.  a  -travel  in  g,  did-that.  last-night, 
and-if-tho,  a-continuons.  to-Savannah,  number-of,  taken-out. 
would-bp.  my-cliYnt.  thirty-nine,,  under-the.  on-file-with-the, 
Tnterstate-Commerce-Commission,  ami-according,  to-our-regu- 

18 


i: XPERT  COURT  REPORTER 

lations,  he-cannot-take,  intrastate,  a-book,  is-not,  in-Georgia, 
a-tariff,  it-is,  you-say,  yes-sir,  tlie-complainant,  to-prove,  that- 
as-a-matter-of-fact,  it-is-done,  if-it-is-done,  a-violation,  of-the, 
and-a,  of-our,  rules-and-regulations,  it-was,  was-it-not. 

After  concluding  the  above  outlined  work,  have  the 
matter  contained  on  page  50  dictated  to  you  fifty 
times,  limiting  the  speed  to  that  at  which  you  can 
execute  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  notes. 

PAGE  52 

The  following  phrases  should  be  written  from  dicta- 
tion at  least  fifty  times  at  a  rate  of  speed  at  which  you 
can  make  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  outlines: 

No-sir,  on-the-contrary,  we-took,  thirty-nine-and-five-tenths, 
the-combination,  was-not,  to-the,  and-according,  to-our,  there- 
is-no,  that-statement,  to-get-this,  in-the-record,  at-the-present- 
time,  at-the,  from-Ridgeland-to-Monteith,  how-many-miles, 
would-be,  we-woukl-pull,  twenty-five,  I-understand-that,  at- 
p  resent,  intrastate,  is-not,  in-the,  State-of-Georgia,  so-you- 
could-not-pull,  from-Monteith,  into-Savannah,  prior-to-that, 
would-it-be,  how-late,  was-that,  went-into,  nineteen-twelve, 
tells-me,  so-that-the,  to-which,  I-have-referred,  I-do-not-know, 
that-it,  prior-to-that-time,  interstate. 

After  concluding  the  above  outlined  work,  have  the 
matter  contained  on  page  52  dictated  to  you  fifty 
times,  limiting  the  speed  to  that  at  which  you  can 
execute  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  notes. 

PAGE  54 

The  following  phrases  should  be  written  from  dicta- 
tion at  least  fifty  times  at  a  rate  of  speed  at  which  you 
can  make  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  outlines: 

Of-tlie,  a-man,  inl  erst  ale,  io-use,  from-Rklgeland-to-Mon- 
tcitli,  aiul-iiilrastato.  from-Monteith-to-Savannah,  is-there 

a-tliing,  yes-sir,  liow-niiicli,  would-be,  iu-that,  under-the,  rail- 
road-eoiinnission,  of-(!eof<ria,  \ve-pull,  il-would-require-the, 

10 


EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 

aiid-we-understand-that-the,  on-the-combination,  what-is- 
your-name,  where-do-you-live,  South-Carolina,  are-you-the- 
complainant,  in-this-case,  I-am,  do-you-travel,  Ridgeland- 
and-Savannah,  I-do,  and-my,  I-will-ask-you-to-state-whether- 
or-not,  you-have-ever,  on-a,  no-sir. 

After  concluding  the  above  outlined  work,  have  the 
matter  contained  on  page  54  dictated  to  you  fifty 
times,  limiting  the  speed  to  that  at  which  you  can 
execute  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  notes. 

PAGE  56 

The  following  phrases  should  be  written  from  dicta- 
tion at  least  fifty  times  at  a  rate  of  speed  at  which  you 
can  make  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  outlines : 

Will-you-please-state-whether-or-not,  you-have-observed- 
the,  of-the,  in-mileage,  from-Ridgeland-to-Savannah,  I-object- 
to-the-question,  for-the-reason,  that-you-cannot,  change-the, 
legal-tariff,  by-testimony,  of-what,  was-done,  the-construction, 
of-a,  is-a-matter-of-law,  and-is-confined,  to-that,  if-it-is-the 
to-prove-the,  I-want-to-prove-the,  I-observed,  last-night, 
and-I,  between-those,  yes-sir,  how-long,  has-it-been,  under- 
your-observation,  for-some,  I-have-been,  these-matters,  for- 
several-years,  did-you-have,  to-notice,  for-this,  Ridgeland- 
and-Savannah,  and-Monteith-and-Savannah,  I-did,  and-from, 
Ridgeland-and-Monteith,  did-not-know-the,  and-I-told-him, 
it-was,  twenty-five,  that-he-was,  to-pull,  out-of,  Mr.-Hudson's, 
what-is-the,  when-you-buy,  a-ticket,  a-dollar. 

After  concluding  the  above  outlined  work,  have  the 
matter  contained  on  page  56  dictated  to  you  fifty 
times,  limiting  the  speed  to  that  at  which  you  can 
execute  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  notes. 

PAGE  58 

The  following  phrases  should  be  written  from  dicta- 
tion at  least  fifty  times  at  a  rate  of  speed  at  which  yon 
can  make  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  outlines: 

20 


EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 

What-is-the,  from-Ridgeland-to-Monteith,  when-you-buy, 
a-lickrt,  sixty-five,  I-would-like-to-know,  how-you-know-that, 
I-paid,  last-night,  five-hundred-eighty-one,  I-will-ask-if,  on- 
yesterday,  you-purchased,  a-ticket,  I-did,  nineteen-forty-two, 
for-which,  a-dollar,  did-you-pay,  on-the,  from-Monteith-to- 
Savannah,  how-much,  twenty-five,  there-is-the,  cross-ex- 
am ination,  it-seems-to-me,  that-you-are,  farailiar-with-the, 
and-tliings,  of-that,  what-is-that,  yes-sir,  I-have-been-in-this, 
in-order-to,  get-it,  to-try,  to-get-the-raatter,  I-see-it-is,  a-prac- 
tise,  of-yours,  is-it-not,  to-buy,  a-local,  to-where,  a-train. 

After  concluding  the  above  outlined  work,  have  the 
matter  contained  on  page  58  dictated  to  you  fifty 
times,  limiting  the  speed  to  that  at  which  you  can 
execute  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  notes. 

PAGE  60 

The  following  phrases  should  be  written  from  dicta- 
tion at  least  fifty  times  at  a  rate  of  speed  at  which  you 
can  make  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  outlines : 

Does-not,  and-the-other,  a-through,  to-where-the,  and-then, 
on-the-train,  to-present-the,  and-demand,  that-you,  at-a-point, 
yes-sir,  if-you-want,  to-get-the-matter,  in-shape,  you-have,  to- 
prepare,  for-it,  do-you-mean-to-say,  that-you-have,  many- 
times,  that-the,  interstate,  from-Ridgeland-to-Monteith,  intra- 
state,  from-Monteith-to-Savannah,  are-you-willing-to-swear- 
to-that,  I-have,  a-ticket,  in-my,  it-was,  twenty-five,  is-there- 
any-dispute,  about-that,  there-is,  that-is,  an-interstate,  that-has- 
been,  was-that-your,  no-sir,  to-a,  do-you-mean-to-tell-us,  that- 
when-you-got,  and-came,  from-Monteith,  the-conductor,  into- 
Ravannah,  something-like-that,  I-cannot-say-whether-or-not, 
I-observed,  heard-the,  about-it,  I-keep,  a-hotel,  and-the,  at- 
my-hotel,  and-they-talked.  about-the-matter. 

After  concluding  the  above  outlined  work,  have  the 
matter  contained  on  page  f>0  dictated  to  you  fifty 
times,  limiting  the  speed  to  that  at  which  you  can 
execute  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  notes. 

21 


EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 

PAGE  62 

The  following  phrases  should  be  written  from  dicta- 
tion at  least  fifty  times  at  a  rate  of  speed  at  which  you 
can  make  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  outlines : 

How-long-have-y oil-been,  them-say,  ever-since,  I-had-the, 
with-the,  railroad-commission,  of-the,  State-of-Georgia,  they- 
have,  it-since-that-time,  but-not,  yon-know,  of-course,  that- 
this,  was-not,  seventeen,  nineteen-thirteen,  I-do-not-know- 
whether-that,  or-not,  Mr.-Hudson,  a-book,  these-times,  that- 
you-have,  that-the-Georgia,  out-of-the,  I-was-told-that,  at-my- 
place,  and-at-that-time,  I-do-not-know-anything-about-the, 
have-not-been,  you-do-not-know,  what-kind,  of-a,  it -was,  I-do- 
not,  you-do-not-know-whether,  you-do-not-know-anything- 
about-it,  that-is-all,  will-yon-please-state-your-name,  and- 
occupation,  where-is,  place-of -business,  South-Carolina,  I- 
would-like-to-know-whether-or-not,  you-have,  a-mileage, 
which-you,  from-the,  Atlantic-Coast-Line-Railroad-Company, 
yes-sir. 

After  concluding  the  above  outlined  work,  have  the 
matter  contained  on  page  62  dictated  to  you  fifty 
times,  limiting  the  speed  to  that  at  which  you  can 
execute  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  notes. 

PAGE  64 

The  following  phrases  should  be  written  from  dicta- 
tion at  least  fifty  times  at  a  rate  of  speed  at  which  you 
can  make  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  outlines : 

I-would-like-to-know,  how-often,  you-travel,  Ridgeland- 
and-Savannah,  two-or-three-times,  a-month,  I-would-like-to- 
know-whether-or-not,  in-traveling,  you-have-had-your,  from- 
Ridgeland-to-Savamiah,  yes-sir,  and-will-you-please-state- 
whether-or-not,  you-have-had,  from-Monteith-to-Savannah. 
no-sir,  the-conductor-claims,  imder-the-law,  it-could-not-be. 
in-the,  that-yon,  nse-the.  he-said-that-the,  and-he,  a-quarter, 
that-was,  last-night,  did-yon,  from-Ridgeland,  what-is-the,  it- 
is,  a-dollar,  yon-clid-not-pay,  did-you,  I-never-have.  I-uso. 
and-they-always,  thirty-nine-miles,  yon-did-not,  off-the- train, 

22 


EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 

I -iiotificd-t lie,  T-was-nol,  to-get,  and-you,  an-interstate-trip, 
did-you-not,  cannot  he,  State-of-Georgia,  and-I,  bought-it, 
! hat-is,  Atlantic-Coast-Line,  on-ihe.  South-Carolina,  I-want- 
to-show. 

After  concluding  the  above  outlined  work,  have  the 
matter  contained  on  page  64  dictated  to  you  fifty 
times,  limiting  the  speed  to  that  at  which  you  can 
execute  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  notes. 

PAGE  66 

The  following  phrases  should  be  written  from  dicta- 
tion at  least  fifty  times  at  a  rate  of  speed  at  which  you 
can  make  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  outlines: 

Has-no,  on-it,  at-all,  that-the,  one-huiidred-and-fifteen,  to- 
the,  farther-than-the-other,  I-have,  an- Atlantic- Coast-Line, 
railroad-commission,  South-Carolina,  oiie-hundred-ninety- 
nine,  thirty-third,  annual -report,  what-is-the,  of-that,  nine- 
teen-eleven,  it-was-the,  I-could,  on-page,  one-hundred-ninety- 
three,  of-this,  same-report,  gives-the,  fourteen,  wait-a-minute, 
I-have-got,  to-figure-this,  twenty-and-four-tenths,  while-the, 
by-the,  by-their-report,  twenty-four-and-five-tenths,  I-do-not- 
think-there-is,  any-dispute,  that-they,  over-the,  same-tracks,  I- 
see-that,  a-moment,  did-you,  to-introduce-the,  I  shall-have,  a- 
fare,  from-Monteith-to-Savannah,  last-night,  for-part-of, 
from-Ridgeland-to-Savannah,  that-is-right,  yes-sir,  complet- 
ing-the,  Mr.-Hudson,  has-been,  since-the,  in-the. 

After  concluding  the  above  outlined  work,  have  the 
matter  contained  on  page  66  dictated  to  you  fifty 
times,  limiting  the  speed  to  that  at  which  you  can 
execute  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  notes. 

PAGE  68 

The  following  phrases  should  be  written  from  dicta- 
tion at  least  fifty  times  at  a  rate  of  speed  at  which  you 
can  make  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  outlines: 

Last-night,    1-have-paid.    once-or-twice,    I-made-the,    from- 

23 


EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 

Monteith,  I-used,  to-go,  to-Monteith,  to-see,  and-I-would- 
come,  to-Savannah,  rather-than,  I-do-not-remember-the,  I- 
paid,  at-that-time,  that-was-the,  first-time,  you-ever,  did-that, 
I-have-done,  that-time,  I-would-get,  off-the-train,  and-then, 
on-again,  what-was-the,  to-break-the,  if-you-could,  use-the, 
I-did-not-use,  this-time,  you-did-not,  did-you,  I-did-not,  there- 
are,  twenty-five,  I-believe,  Mr.-Lipman,  and-the-other,  Mr.- 
Hudson,  in-every-respect,  and-both,  last-night,  it-is-not,  on-a- 
trip, from-the-beginning,  to-be,  an-interstate-trip,  I-take-it, 
from-Ridgeland-to-Savannah,  they-will,  be-received,  in-evi- 
dence. 

After  concluding  the  above  outlined  work,  have  the 
matter  contained  on  page  68  dictated  to  you  fifty 
times,  limiting  the  speed  to  that  at  which  you  can 
execute  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  notes. 

PAGE  70 

The  following  phrases  should  be  written  from  dicta- 
tion at  least  fifty  times  at  a  rate  of  speed  at  which  you 
can  make  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  outlines : 

I-will-offer-in-evidence,  a-copy-of,  a-letter,  is-there-objec- 
tion,  to-this,  of-its,  being-a,  no-sir,  to-the,  railroad-commission, 
of-the,  State-of-Georgia,  thirty,  nineteen-seven,  of-Ridgeland, 
in-which-he,  South-Carolina,  in-regard-to-the-matter,  Mon- 
teith-and-Savannah,  by-referring,  to-our-local,  in-effect,  nine- 
teen-four,  I.C.C.,  eighty-six,  seventy-nine,  it-will-be-seen,  that- 
Monteith,  to-be,  in-South-Carolina,  instead-of,  and-the,  dis- 
tance-is, fourteen-and-four-tenths,  I-am-unable,  to-explain, 
how-this,  should-have,  into-the,  ]\Ionteith-is,  a-small-flag-sta- 
tion,  and-this,  to-be-the,  first-time,  that-this,  has-been,  to-our, 
from-Monteith,  to-the,  should-be,  thirty-three,  we-shall,  to- 
correct,  at-once. 

After  concluding  the  above  outlined  work,  have  the 
matter  contained  on  page  70  dictated .  to  you  fifty 
times,  limiting  the  speed  to  that  at  which  you  can 
execute  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  notes. 

24 


EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 
PAGE  7 '2 

The  following  phrases  should  be  written  from  dicta- 
tion at  least  fifty  times  at  a  rate  of  speed  at  which  you 
can  make  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  outlines: 

f-tliink,  .Mr-Examiner,  that-is-all,  we-have,  for-defendant, 
your-narae-is,  yes-sir,  you-are,  traffic-manager,  of-the,  Atlantic- 
( 'oast-Line-Railroad-Company,  and-in-charge-of-the,  Atlan- 
tir-Coast-Line,  pleas<>-stat<>-whether-or-not,  yon-are,  in-this- 
r-ase,  are-you-familiar-with-the,  and-the,  and-have-you-been, 
for-many-years,  you-have-been-connected,  with-the,  and-are- 
familiar-with-the,  abont-how-many-years,  eleven-and-a-half, 
previons-to-that-time.  were-yon,  I-was,  a-dependent,  of-the, 
and-Carolina,  this-section,  in-fact,  thirty,  I-have-been-con- 
nected,  with-the,  of-South-Carolina. 

After  concluding  the  above  outlined  work,  have  the 
matter  contained  on  page  72  dictated  to  you  fifty 
times,  limiting  the  speed  to  that  at  which  you  can 
execute  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  notes. 

PAGE  74 

The  following  phrases  should  be  written  from  dicta- 
tion at  least  fifty  times  at  a  rate  of  speed  at  which  you 
can  make  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  outlines : 

And-are-you-familiar-with-the,  topography,  of-this-coun- 
try,  and-the,  and-climatie,  and-those,  as-well-as-the,  and- 
passenger,  of-it,  they-all-within,  your-knowledge,  yes-sir,  I- 
am,  familiar-with-that,  as-to-the-question,  I-will-get-you-to- 
state-the,  character-of-the,  stating-the,  and-why-there-has- 
been,  if-there-has-been,  between-those-points,  I-have,  a-paper, 
you-have,  a-little,  that-you-have-made,  from-which-you,  to- 
explain-the,  Ridgeland-and-^\ronteith,  and-Savannah,  and- 
Charleston,  Atlantic-Coast-Line,  and-how-the,  into-Savannah, 
arid-its,  local-station,  T-will-get-you,  with-reference-to-this, 
and-in-such-a-way,  that-the.  will-show-the,  without-the, 
offered-in-evidence,  from-Charloston,  South-Carolina,  to- 
Savannah,  one-hundred-and-fifteen,  yon-say,  that-is-the,  use- 
now,  in-onr-tariffs.  and-in-onr.  of -tli rough-rates. 


EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 

After  concluding  the  above  outlined  work,  have  the 
matter  contained  on  page  74  dictated  to  you  fifty 
times,  limiting  the  speed  to  that  at  which  you  can 
execute  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  notes. 

PAGE  76 

The  following  phrases  should  be  written  from  dicta- 
tion at  least  fifty  times  at  a  rate  of  speed  at  which  you 
can  make  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  outlines : 

And-local,  aiid-everything-else,  it-passes,  through-the,  tide- 
water, South-Carolina,  a-section,  eiglit-or-nine,  it-is,  a-very, 
low-section,  and-has,  per-square-mile,  any-other-section,  of- 
the,  with-both,  and-black,  is-not-very,  is-it,  no-sir,  I-have-the, 
along-with-that,  but-the,  in-this,  that-is,  Beaufort-County, 
that-is-where,  of-this,  thirty-nine-hundred-sixty-three,  it-has- 
that,  number-of,  white-people,  in-it,  there-is,  an-area,  nine- 
hundred-twenty,  square-miles,  an-average,  of-only,  four-and- 
three-tenths,  and-the,  eighty-six-and-nine-tenths,  thirteen- 
and-one-tenth,  would-be,  how-many,  entire-population-is, 
thirty-thousand-three-hundred-fifty-five,  a-decrease,  in-popu- 
lation. 

After  concluding  the  above  outlined  work,  have  the 
matter  contained  on  page  76  dictated  to  you  fifty 
times,  limiting  the  speed  to  that  at  which  you  can 
execute  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  notes. 

PAGE  78 

The  following  phrases  should  be  written  from  dicta- 
tion at  least  fifty  times  at  a  rate  of  speed  at  which  you 
can  make  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  outlines  : 

In-the,  percentage-of,  fourteen-and-five-tenths,  I-get,  from- 
the-United-States,  and-we-have,  of-the,  do-you-mean-to-say, 
l>y-the,  on-the,  aii-increase,  and-which-have,  a-decrease.  in- 
population,  yes-sir,  showing-the,  as-well-as-the,  Mr.-Craig, 
thirteenth,  South-Carolina,  and-lie,  to-the,  of-said.  in-this, 
entire-distance,  one-hundred-fifteen,,  there-are,  aml-they-are. 
three-hundred-thirty,  two-hundred-fifty,  fifty-four,  and-tlie, 

26 


EXPERT  C'OrHT  REPORTER 

;is-\ou-\\  ill-sec,  cut  irr-populaf  ion,  sixty-eight-and-eight-tentlis. 
tliirty-oiit'-a in  1-1  \\o-1t-i i Ills,  aiid-it-is. 

After  corn-hiding  tin-  above  outlined  work,  have  the 
matter  contained  on  page  78  dictated  to  you  fifty 
times,  limiting  the  speed  to  that  at  which  you  ran 
execute  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  notes. 

PAGE  80 

The  following  phrases  should  be  written  from  dicta- 
tion at  least  fifty  times  at  a  rate  of  speed  at  which  you 
can  make  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  outlines : 

To-a,  are-you-willing-to-testify,  I-do,  to-testify,  that-the, 
negro-population,  in-that-section,  to-our,  an-industrial,  and- 
agricnltnral,  yes-sir,  and-tliat-thcy-only,  on-oceasions,  and- 
their,  and-thcy,  must-be,  very-low,  wliat-is-the,  and-Savannah, 
in-Savannah,  I-do-not-know,  I-will-take-up-the,  there-are-no, 
I-know-of,  Ridgeland-and-Savannah,  I-am-acqnainted-witli. 
in-Beaufort-Connty,  describe-the,  topographical,  out-the, 
Bidgeland-and-Monteith,  and-the.  it-is,  a-low,  the-construc- 
tion,  and-operation,  line-is,  and-trestles,  we-are-now,  in- 
replacing. 

After  concluding  the  above  outlined  work,  have  the 
matter  contained  on  page  80  dictated  to  you  fifty 
times,  limiting  the  speed  to  that  at  which  you  can 
execute  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  notes. 

PAGE  82 

The  following  phrases  should  be  written  from  dicta- 
tion at  least  fifty  times  at  a  rate  of  speed  at  which  you 
can  make  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  outlines: 

Every-one,  of-tliose,  a-large,  majority-of-them,  and-we-are, 
in-their,  an-automatic,  a-protection,  to-life,  and-property, 
five-or-six-thonsand,  and-tho.  one-hundred-thousand,  and-we- 
have,  all-the,  do-you-mean-the,  yes-sir,  from-all-the,  in-South- 
Carolina.  on-the.  where-there-is-no,  to-the,  it-requires,  and- 
replacing,  makcs-it-tho,  part-of.  T-will-ask-you-then,  if-it-is- 


EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 

not-a-fact,  in-this,  you-have-the,  and-at-the-same-time,  and- 
maintain,  is-that,  a-correct-statement,  I-am-sorry,  to-say, 
that-that-section,  has-not,  on-the-contrary,  lias-goiie-back,  for- 
the-last,  and-will-you-please-state-whether-or-not,  your-road- 
has.  a-reduction. 

After  concluding  the  above  outlined  work,  have  the 
matter  contained  on  page  82  dictated  to  you  fifty 
times,  limiting  the  speed  to  that  at  which  you  can 
execute  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  notes. 

PAGE  84 

The  following  phrases  should  be  written  from  dicta- 
tion at  least  fifty  times  at  a  rate  of  speed  at  which  you 
can  make  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  outlines : 

About-how-far,  is-it,  from- Charleston,  to-Ridgeland,  it-is, 
seventy-five-and-five-tenths,  that-is-the-point,  by-the-com- 
plaint,  what-are-the,  from-there,  do-you,  yes-sir,  cross-the, 
which-are-the,  on-the,  that-is,  and-we-have-just,  and-it-is, 
probably-the,  in-this-country,  four-hundred-and-seventy- 
four-thousand,  I-will-ask-you-to-state-whether-or-not,  yon- 
travel,  a-swamp,  to-Monteith,  about-how-many-miles,  is-that, 
thirty-five,  please-state,  what-Monteith,  is-it,  a-town,  what-is- 
it,  it-is,  a-hamlet,  we-have-no-station,  a-cross-road,  which-has- 
been,  in-existence,  thirty-or-forty,  it-is-the,  across-the,  a-little, 
from-the. 

After  concluding  the  above  outlined  work,  have  the 
matter  contained  on  page  84  dictated  to  you  fifty 
times,  limiting  the  speed  to  that  at  which  you  can 
execute  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  notes. 

PAGE  86 

The  following  phrases  should  be  written  from  dicta- 
tion at  least  fifty  times  at  a  rate  of  speed  at  which  you 
can  make  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  outlines : 

It-is,  a-point,  on- which,  to-base-the,  yes-sir,  have-you,  an- 
agent,  no-sir,  is-not-incorporated,  it-is-not-shown,  in-the,  aiul- 
has-no.  at-all,  I-will-ask-you-if-you-will,  describe-that,  topo- 
graphical, and-other,  from-Moiiteith,  to-Savannah,  and-state- 

28 


EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 

•\vhctlKT-or- not,  from-Ridgeland,  to-the,  is-in,  Beaufort- 
County,  tliat-has,  a-decrease,  in-the,  five-thousand,  iii-popula- 
tion,  cross-the,  we-have,  and-it-is,  well-known,  Chatham- 
County,  is-in-the,  city-of,  and-there-is,  I-would-like-to-know- 
whether-there-is,  there-are,  a-distance,  and-then,  a-ridge, 
back-of-the,  I-will-get-you-to-state,  where-the,  Atlantic-Coast- 
Line,  it-was,  what-the,  mathematical,  would-be,  present-sta- 
tion, was-not,  and-why,  I-would-like-you-to-state,  what-you- 
did,  and-in-the,  and-what-the,  with-the. 

After  concluding  the  above  outlined  work,  have  the 
matter  contained  on  page  86  dictated  to  you  fifty 
times,  limiting  the  speed  to  that  at  which  you  can 
execute  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  notes. 

PAGE  88 

The  following  phrases  should  be  written  from  dicta- 
tion at  least  fifty  times  at  a  rate  of  speed  at  which  you 
can  make  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  outlines : 

"When-this-case,  a-case,  to-this-case,  just-a-minute,  I-will- 
state,  that-that-was-the,  and-transportation,  I.C.C.,  it-was, 
twenty-four,  eighteen-ninety-eight,  this-report-of-the,  Inter- 
state-Commerce-Commission, and-the,  of-it-is,  bureau-of,  nam- 
ing-the,  and-others,  docket-number-of-the,  is-not-given,  but- 
the,  of-the,  I-would-like-to-know-whether-the,  in-that,  a-com- 
ponent,  part-of-the,  yes-sir,  and-it-is-now,  a-part-of-the, 
Atlantic-Coast-Line-Railroad-Company,  with-your,  of-that, 
at-that.  at-the-time-the,  and-to,  nineteen-two,  from-the, 
around-the,  and-came,  on-the,  southeastern,  side-of-the. 

After  concluding  the  above  outlined  work,  have  the 
matter  contained  on  page  88  dictated  to  you  fifty 
times,  limiting  the  speed  to  that  at  which  you  can 
execute  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  notes. 

PAGE  90 

The  following  phrases  should  be  written  from  dicta- 
tion at  least  fifty  times  at  a  rate  of  speed  at  which  you 
can  make  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  outlines: 

From-this,    from-the-present,    lluit-was,    an-old,    a-woodon, 

29 


EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 

and-sinee-that-time,  in-connection-with-the,  Seaboard,  Air- 
Line,  a-new,  a-cost,  seven-hundred-forty-two-thousand,  m- 
the,  of-this,  we-had,  in-view,  to-the-business,  the-other-trans- 
portation,  steamship,  in-other-words,  it-was,  a-location,  that- 
has,  served-the,  of-the,  is-the,  at-all,  only-as,  to-freight,  it-is, 
alongside-of,  there-is,  only-one,  in-Savannah,  for-the,  Atlan- 
tic-Coast-Line-Railroad-Company,  that-is-the,  and-with,  to- 
this,  station-is,  about-a,  to-the,  is-it-not,  yes-sir,  toward-the, 
more-than,  a-mile,  in-that-direction,  is-that,  I-have-my,  I- 
think-it-is,  southeasterly,  and-the,  of-its,  and-your-own,  built- 
this,  is-that-it. 

After  concluding  the  above  outlined  work,  have  the 
matter  contained  on  page  90  dictated  to  you  fifty 
times,  limiting  the  speed  to  that  at  which  you  can 
execute  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  notes. 

PAGE  92 

The  following  phrases  should  be  written  from  dicta- 
tion at  least  fifty  times  at  a  rate  of  speed  at  which  you 
can  make  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  outlines : 

Yes-sir,  that-is-it,  and-in-so,  when-it-comes,  to-the,  you- 
have,  from-Monteith,  how-many-miles,  with-the,  we-have, 
four-and-one-tenth,  I-will-ask-you-to-state-whether-or-not,  out- 
of,  inereased-the,  no-sir,  people-of,  what-kind,  of-a,  I-mean, 
as-to,  it-is,  a-larger,  fifty-or-one-hundred,  and-a,  at-this, 
for-the,  no-more,  for-this,  please-do-not-understand,  to- 
say,  that-the,  has-been,  it-has-been,  that-it-is,  a-Savannah, 
that-we-have,  a-much,  that-it,  did-not,  and-should-not,  in- 
view,  of-the,  which-was,  throughout-the,  there-is-no,  for-in- 
stance,  where-there-has-been,  a-change. 

After  concluding  the  above  outlined  work,  have  the 
matter  contained  on  page  92  dictated  to  you  fifty 
times,  limiting  the  speed  to  that  at  which  you  can 
execute  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  notes. 

PAGE  94 

The  following  plmisos  should  he  written  from  dicta- 

30 


EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 

lion  at  least  fifty  times  at  a  rate  of  speed  at  which  you 
can  make  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  outlines : 

There-has-been,  a-change,  more-than,  a-mile,  has-there-not, 
one-third,  in-each-direction,  same-is-true-with,  I-can,  cite-the, 
where-they-have.  two-or-thive,  and-the,  are-the,  to-each,  four- 
and-a-half,  from-their.  same-rates,  how-did,  that-the,  for-the, 
fourteen,  npon-which-you-made-yonr,  from-Monteith,  and-a, 
\vas-taken,  to-the,  railroad-commission,  of-Georgia,  Mr.-Lip- 
maii,  a-rate-of,  twenty-five,  and-lMonteith.  do-you-know- 
\vlietlier-or-not,  it-was-the.  that-you,  a-uniform,  by-the,  of- 
the.  state-of-Georgia,  yes-sir,  is-this,  a-fair,  from-your,  I- 
understand-that-you,  although-the,  mileage-of,  your-line, 
from-the,  South-Carolina,  and-from-Monteith,  has-been,  what- 
it-was. 

After  concluding  the  above  outlined  work,  have  the 
matter  contained  on  page  94  dictated  to  you  fifty 
times,  limiting  the  speed  to  that  at  which  you  can 
execute  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  notes. 

PAGE  96 

The  following  phrases  should  he  written  from  dicta- 
tion at  least  fifty  times  at  a  rate  of  speed  at  which  you 
can  make  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  outlines : 

That-so-far-as,  yon-are,  Atlantic-Coast-Line-Railroad-Com- 
pany, of-the,  interstate,  in-bound,  out-bound,  and-that-the, 
and-out-of,  have-not-been,  to-correspond,  with-the,  mathe- 
matical, in-the,  that-is,  and-it-is-not,  I-would-like-to-state, 
Mr.-Examiner,  at-the-time,  bet \veen-Savannah,  and-Monteith, 
F-am-afraid,  I-stated,  my-proposition,  a-little,  I-did-not,  had- 
not-been,  at-all,  I-meant,  to-state,  that-the,  by-reason,  of-the, 
I-do-not-ask-you,  if-there-was,  I-do-ask,  if-there-has-been, 
aiiy-increase,  and-if-so,  if-they-were,  I-do-iiot-know,  with-the, 
fi'om-]\ronteith,  which-was-made,  under-the,  railroad-commis- 
sion, State-of-Georgia,  has-not,  in-any,  interstate,  intrastate, 
in-that-station,  in-other-words,  it-made,  that-was-made,  to- 
Monteith,  is-tliat-it,  T-am,  to-try,  to-make,  I-want,  this-case, 
just -as,  clear-as-possible,  there-has,  been-no,  there-was,  a- 

31 


EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 

reduction,    in-our,    by-the,    throughout-the,    entire-territory, 
and-that. 

After  concluding  the  above  outlined  work,  have  the 
matter  contained  on  page  96  dictated  to  you  fifty 
times,  limiting  the  speed  to  that  at  which  you  can 
execute  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  notes. 

PAGE  98 

The  following  phrases  should  be  written  from  dicta- 
tion at  least  fifty  times  at  a  rate  of  speed  at  which  you 
can  make  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  outlines : 

That-has-nothing,  to-do,  with-this,  no-sir,  I-wanted,  to- 
make-it,  at-the-time,  of-the,  bureau-of,  and-transportation, 
against-the,  and-Savannah,  will-you-please-state,  what-the, 
from-Charleston,  since-that-time,  interstate-rates,  as-follows, 
eighteen-ninety-eight,  to-Charleston,  four-forty,  nineteen- 
hundred,  three-forty-five,  nineteen-thirteen,  two-ninety,  to- 
Ridgeland,  one-forty-nine,  one-fifteen,  that-is,  thirty-three- 
and-one-third,  in-that-time,  has-there-been,  in-the,  of-the, 
from-Ridgeland,  since-the,  Interstate-Commerce-Commission, 
has-been,  which-was-then,  a-very,  in-this,  there-has-been,  a- 
reduction,  fifty-eight-thousand-one-hundred-sixty,  a-decrease, 
that-is,  seventy-five,  it-means,  eight-hundred-and-forty-six- 
thousand-five-hundred-twenty-eight. 

After  concluding  the  above  outlined  work,  have  the 
matter  contained  on  page  98  dictated  to  you  fifty 
times,  limiting  the  speed  to  that  at  which  you  can 
execute  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  notes. 

PAGE  100 

The  following  phrases  should  be  written  from  dicta- 
tion at  least  fifty  times  at  a  rate  of  speed  at  which  you 
can  make  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  outlines : 

"Which-was,  a-very,  along-this-section,  a-number-of-years, 
given-way,  to-the,  and-Tennessee,  thus-the,  that-were,  years- 
ago,  have-passed,  depriving-a,  number-of,  and-foreed-the,  to- 
other-sections, T-will-state-tliat.  sixty-nine-and-two-tenths,  of- 
Ihe,  South-Carolina,  Beaufort-County,  thirty-two,  whieh-is. 

32 


I- XPERT  COURT  REPORTER 

so-far-as,  is-concerned,  forty-five,  fifty-five,  all-of-tlie,  into- 
coiisideratioii,  tliis-sectiou,  forty-two,  of -its,  in-farms,  sixty- 
nine,  for-the,  it-is,  a-section,  that-is-not,  and-we-are,  our- 
iiioney,  to-develop,  to-do,  anything-with-it,  on-account,  do- 
you-ineaii-to-say,  that-it-is,  yes-sir,  your-rates,  eighteen- 
nmety-six,  under-the,  state-railroad-commission,  a-mile,  were- 
they,  what-are-they,  two-and-a-half,  will-you-please,  when- 
the,  was-made,  and-state-whether-or-not,  if-the. 

After  concluding  the  above  outlined  work,  have  the 
matter  contained  on  page  100  dictated  to  you  fifty 
times,  limiting  the  speed  to  that  at  which  you  can 
.execute  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  notes. 

PAGE  102 

The  following  phrases  should  be  written  from  dicta- 
tion at  least  fifty  times  at  a  rate  of  speed  at  which  you 
can  make  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  outlines : 

Were-paid,  they-were,  there-has-been-time,  for-the,  rules- 
and-regulations,  permeate-the,  in-other-words,  if -this,  was- 
not,  an-exception,  and-if-it,  was-done,  it-was,  because-the, 
did-not-understand-the,  this-question,  South-Carolina,  has- 
just,  before-the,  Interstate-Commerce-Commission,  and-they- 
rendered,  a-decision,  which-is,  to-you,  in-view,  of-the,  state- 
law,  we-were-compelled,  withdraw-that,  in-South-Carolina, 
Georgia-Commission,  an-order,  and-put,  which-are,  in-effect, 
forces-the,  from-our,  withdraw-the,  from-Georgia,  Mr.-Lip- 
man,  that-the,  local-fare,  from-Ridgeland-to-Savannah,  he- 
paid,  sixty-five,  to-Monteith,  an-endeavor,  to-get-the,  the-con- 
ductor,  at-fault.  and-it-was,  against-his,  accept-that,  inter- 
state, from-Monteith-to-Savannah.  collecting-an,  fifteen,  that- 
is,  whicli-woiild-make-the,  into-Savannah,  twenty-five,  which- 
is,  yes-sir,  and-fifteen,  I-thouglit-you,  that-there-was-no,  that- 
is-right. 

After  concluding  the  above  outlined  work,  have  the 
matter  contained  on  page  102  dictated  to  you  fifty 
times,  limiting  the  speed  to  that  at  which  you  can 
execute  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  notes. 

33 


EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 

PAGE  104 

The  following  phrases  should  be  written  from  dicta- 
tion at  least  fifty  times  at  a  rate  of  speed  at  which  you 
can  make  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  outlines : 

Is-it-possible,  for-you,  to-collect-that,  where-there-is-no 
ticket,  yes-sir,  on-an,  interstate,  he-is-not,  a-Monteith,  there- 
is-no-question-about-that,  I-was,  as-a-matter-of-fact,  are-open, 
to-prosecution,  I-do-not-think-there,  will-be,  any-prosecution, 
because-it-was,  to-test,  this-case,  Mr.-Lipman,  should-have, 
sixty-five,  to-Monteith,  and-also,  twenty-five,  and-that,  would- 
have,  protected-the,  of-our,  would-be,  which-is,  higlier-than, 
the-other,  yes-sir,  would-have-been,  Mr.-Hudson,  on-a,  and- 
they-are,  when-he,  the-conductor,  should-have-collected,  from- 
him,  what-is-the,  I.C.C.,  with-regard,  to-those,  eleven-hun- 
dred-sixty-five, suppose-the,  on-the,  asked-for,  what-effect, 
would-it-have,  upon-the,  Atlantic-Coast-Line-Railroad-Cora- 
pany,  and-in-the,  of -its,  on-the. 

After  concluding  the  above  outlined  work,  have  the 
matter  contained  on  page  104  dictated  to  you  fifty 
times,  limiting  the  speed  to  that  at  which  you  can 
execute  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  notes. 

PAGE  106 

The  following  phrases  should  be  written  from  dicta- 
tion at  least  fifty  times  at  a  rate  of  speed  at  which  you 
can  make  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  outlines : 

It-would-mean,  a-readjustment,  of-our,  entire-tariffs,  and- 
south,  of-every-rate,  we-have,  and-practically,  one-hundred- 
and-fifty,  two-hundred-thousand,  in-the,  of-the,  Atlantic- 
Coast-Line-Railroad-Company,  per-annum,  have-you,  idea- 
of-the,  would-be;  a-very,  outside-of-tbe,  but-the,  would-be-the, 
and-the,  yes-sir,  it-would,  all-our,  betwcon-the,  is-it-possible, 
for-you,  givo-me,  an-approximation,  it-would-be,  five-or-six- 
Iliousand,  without-takiiifr,  into-consideration-the,  what-do- 
you-lliiiik,  it-would-cost.  aside-from-llie,  ^Fj-.-Clark,  T-lliink. 
at-least,  ten-thousand,  and-elerical. 

After  concluding  the  above  outlined  work,  have  the 

34 


EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 

matter  contained  on  page  10G  dictated  to  you  fifty 
times,  limiting  the  speed  to  that  at  which  you  cau 
execute  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  notes. 

PAGE  108 

The  following  phrases  should  be  written  from  dicta- 
tion at  least  fifty  times  at  a  rate  of  speed  at  which  you 
can  make  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  outlines : 

Is-lhere-anything-  further,  you-desire,  to-state,  I-would- 
like-to-state,  tliat-that,  has-been,  and-laid-with,  eighty-five, 
steel-rails,  have-been,  and-they-are,  getting-a,  and-it-is,  at-the, 
of-the,  and-during-all-that-time,  another-question,  it-was, 
tliat-the,  in-some-reports,  to-the-South-Carolina-Commissiou, 
and-Savannah,  to-the,  Interstate-Commerce-Commission,  and- 
slate,  I-refer,  I.C.C.,  twenty-nine-sixty-five,  showing-the, 
twenty-five-and-one-tenth,  to-say,  I-do-not-think-so,  cross- 
examination,  one-hundred-fifteen,  when-the,  yes-sir,  and-that, 
a-loop,  three-or-fonr,  around-the,  city-of,  and-that-was, 
accommodate-the,  with-its,  wasn't-it,  in-connection-with. 

After  concluding  the  above  outlined  work,  have  the 
matter  contained  on  page  108  dictated  to  you  fifty 
times,  limiting  the  speed  to  that  at  which  you  can 
execute  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  notes. 

PAGE  110 

The  following  phrases  should  be  written  from  dicta- 
tion at  least  fifty  times  at  a  rate  of  speed  at  which  you 
can  make  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  outlines : 

No-sir,  that-was-the,  Bolton-Street,  called-the,  was-it,  or- 
the,  Liberty-Street,  I-mean-the,  and-Liberty-Streets,  at-that- 
place,  don't-they,  yes-sir,  does-this,  represent-that,  and-it- 
was,  in-order-to,  at-t hat-time,  that-had,  above-the,  we-have- 
not,  was-tho,  railroad-wharf,  ever-built,  in-Georgia,  wasn't-it, 
F-lliink-so,  that-railroad,  and-was-the,  isn't-that-true,  not- 
the,  only-railroad,  Iliat-liad.  near-the,  that-is-right,  I-asked- 
you.  if-il.  \vi1h-1lie.  that-your-road-went,  around-the,  to-the- 
river.  I-could-not-tell-you-that,  1-was-not-counected-with-tlie, 
and-you-reraember,  tliat-lhev,  a-line. 


EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 

After  concluding  the  above  outlined  work,  have  the 
matter  contained  on  page  110  dictated  to  you  fifty 
times,  limiting  the  speed  to  that  at  which  you  can 
execute  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  notes. 

PAGE  112 

The  following  phrases  should  be  written  from  dicta- 
tion at  least  fifty  times  at  a  rate  of  speed  at  which  you 
can  make  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  outlines : 

In-that-directioii,  to-which-the,  on-this,  is-the,  a-triangle, 
to-the,  and-lower-portion,  of-the,  to-which-reference-is,  I-will- 
ask-you-if,  a-passenger,  by-the,  Atlantic-Coast-Line-Railroad- 
Company,  not-only,  from-Savannah,  also-the,  to-be,  didn't- 
it,  no-sir,  do-you-mean-to-say,  that-this,  is-riot-correct,  to-our, 
lengthened-the,  then-the,  from-this-point  on-this,  at-the, 
which-is-the,  to-the,  shorter-than-the,  at-the-union,  I-assume, 
have-been,  what-is-the-amount,  of-that,  a-mile,  it-is,  about-a, 
you-understand,  it-is-not,  in-view,  of-this,  being-a,  for-the- 
trains,  to-perform,  in-other-words,  we-back. 

After  concluding  the  above  outlined  work,  have  the 
matter  contained  on  page  112  dictated  to  you  fifty 
times,  limiting  the  speed  to  that  at  which  you  can 
execute  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  notes. 

PAGE  114 

The  following  phrases  should  be  written  from  dicta- 
tion at  least  fifty  times  at  a  rate  of  speed  at  which  you 
can  make  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  outlines : 

You-back,  for-instance,  a-service,  into-the,  and-that,  two- 
and-three-quarters,  another-fraction,  of-a,  that-is,  \vhat- 
accounts,  for-the,  I-don't-kuow,  I-understood-you-to-say, 
that-one,  of-the,  should-justify-the,  in-tin1,  over-the,  is-the, 
and-llie.  and-Cliarleslon.  lliat-is.  a-faclor.  isn'1-it-a-faet,  that- 
those,  Monteith-and-Charleston,  yes-sir,  and-there-are-no, 
Monteith-and-Savannah,  no-sir,  I-will-ask-you-to-state- 
whether-or-not-the,  from-Charleston,  any-point,  on-the.  and- 
including,  will-you-please,  look-that,  Mr.-Clark,  from-Mou- 

36 


EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 

1ci1li-to-S;iv«miiali,  is-il-not.  Hint-was,  by-the,  Georgia-Com- 
mission, [-would-like-to-know-whether-or-not,  you-have,  why- 
tin-,  is-justified,  in-traveling,  and-is-not-justified,  you-under- 
siaud,  ot'-course,  that-thc,  interstate-rates,  that-we-do-not, 
all-of-tlie,  on-a,  in-vie\v,  of-tlie. 

After  concluding-  the  above  outlined  work,  have  the 
matter  contained  on  page  114  dictated  to  you  fifty 
times,  limiting-  the  speed  to  that  at  which  you  can 
execute  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  notes. 

PAGE  116 

The  following  phrases  should  be  written  from  dicta- 
tion at  least  fifty  times  at  a  rate  of  speed  at  which  you 
can  make  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  outlines : 

And-they-are,  to-be,  in-accordance-with-the,  I-will-ask-you- 
to-state,  what-the,  Ridgeland-and-Savannah,  which-is-not, 
Ridgeland-and-Monteith,  you-understand-that-you-are,  a-. 
question,  and-we-do-not-think,  should-be,  I-will-ask-you-if- 
yon-know,  wliat-1lie,  what-would-be,  a-proper,  for-the,  my- 
best-jndgment,  in-your-judgment,  you-are-entitled,  upon-the, 
of-the,  and-the,  what-it-is-that,  I-would-like-to-know,  why- 
you,  for-it-is,  that-yon-have,  with-that,  instead-of-the,  that- 
has-the,  of-those,  on-the,  in-Savannah,  we-have,  changed-the, 
we-have-not,  that-the,  a-change,  in-the,  there-is-absolutely, 
and-Monteith,  is-jnst,  a-cross-road,  a-station,  a-postoffice,  and- 
it-is-only-taken,  entire-business,  I-will-take-the,  ask-the-ques- 
tion,  over-agaiii,  I-would-like-you-to-state,  what-the,  justify- 
ill  >'.  in-charging,  Monteith-and-Savannah,  and- which,  do-not, 
when-you,  from-Monteith. 

After  concluding  the  above  outlined  work,  have  the 
matter  contained  on  page  116  dictated  to  you  fifty 
times,  limiting  the  speed  to  that  at  which  you  can 
execute  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  notes. 

PAGE  118 

The  following  phrases  should  be  written  from  dicta- 
tion at  least  fifty  times  at  a  rate  of  speed  at  which  you 
can  make  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  outlines: 


EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 

I-think,  I-have-answered-that,  there-is-no,  to-Monteitli. 
was-not,  as-a-point,  from-whieh,  to-which,  there-would-be, 
any-traffic,  to-it,  from-it,  aiid-in-view,  of-the,  that-the-Geor- 
gia-Commission,  changed-the,  there-was-no-such,  as-you,  have- 
stated,  if-there-is-no-question,  would-you,  change-the,  that- 
you,  do-not,  do-so,  is-the,  I-am-after,  I-will-see-whether-it-is, 
for-me,  to-make-that,  to-hoth-the,  and-defendant,  a-great- 
many-eases,  to-this,  by-the-Interstate-Comraerce-Commission. 
and-submitted,  and-are,  to-our,  from-time-to-time,  I-under- 
stand,  Mr.-Craig,  to-testify,  that-crossing-the.  and-swamps, 
either-side,  they-have,  a-bridge,  something-like,  four-hundred- 
and-seventy-five-thousand,  if-that-is,  let-us-assume,  that- 
from-Charleston,  to-a,  at-the,  South-Carolina,  of-that-bridge, 
are-made,  on-mileage,  at-Monteith,  in-Georgia,  of-the,  and- 
from-there,  into-Savannah,  were-based,  let-us,  a-rate,  between- 
this-station,  in-South-Carolina,  at-the,  over-the,  between-that- 
station,  and-the,  in-Georgia,  would-be,  for-the,  and-the,  and- 
everything-else. 

After  concluding  the  above  outlined  work,  have  the 
matter  contained  on  page  118  dictated  to  you  fifty 
times,  limiting  the  speed  to  that  at  which  you  can 
execute  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  notes. 

PAGE  120 

The  following  phrases  should  be  written  from  dicta- 
tion at  least  fifty  times  at  a  rate  of  speed  at  which  you 
can  make  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  outlines : 

Your-proposition,  to-this-extent,  I-see-it,  you-ask,  Mr.- 
Craig,  if-the,  from-Charleston,  to-Monteith,  on-mileage,  for- 
the-purpose,  at-the,  of-the,  if-you,  build-your-rate,  when- 
there-is-no,  of-Monteith,  from-Monteith-to-Savaiinah,  is-that- 
your-question,  yes-sir,  is-it,  a-continuous,  where-that,  if -it -is, 
it-is-the,  that-there-is-no,  where-the,  between-Charleston, 
and-Monteith,  and-when-the,  extra-is,  it-is,  by-the,  if-it,  but- 
tho,  for-that.  lias-been,  and-the,  should-be.  you-understand- 
the,  complainant 's-question,  answer-it,  as-best,  yon-can,  it- 
becomes-necessary-for-ns.  to-make.  an-explanation,  of-it.  and- 
I,  I-can-make,  meet-the,  that-the,  in-themselves,  and-legal, 

38 


KXl'KKT  COrKT  REPORTER 

\vlicii-thc,  Georgia-Commission,  l-understand-it,  is-not-the,  no- 
sir,  eighteeii-iiinety-eight,  you-say-that-the,  between-Charles- 
1011,  and-Savannah,  four-forty. 

After  concluding  the  above  outlined  work,  have  the 
matter  contained  on  page  120  dictated  to  you  fifty 
times,  limiting  the  speed  to  that  at  which  you  can 
execute  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  notes. 

PAGE  122 

The  following  phrases  should  be  written  from  dicta- 
tion at  least  fifty  times  at  a  rate  of  speed  at  which  you 
can  make  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  outlines : 

That-was,  a-combination,  of-the,  in-South-Carolina,  and- 
the,  in-Georgia,  wasn't-it,  I-could-not-tell-you,  I-will-ask-if- 
you-will-be,  to-figure-it,  for-me,  and-see,  if-that-does-not, 
with-it,  I-think-that-was-the,  in-the-other,  that-it-was-not, 
to-save-time,  and-figuring,  let-us-assume,  that-that-is-the,  that- 
the,  and-it-was,  wouldn 't-that,  figure-out,  to-a,  between- 
Charleston,  and-Savarmali,  it-would-make-it,  four-forty- 
three,  I-will-ask-you,  to-indicate,  upon-which-you,  one-hun- 
<  I  red-fifteen,  to-the,  eighteen-and-seven- tenths,  I-always,  to- 
be,  I-don't-know,  what-it-is,  upon-the,  as-it-is,  in-this,  from- 
the,  railroad-commission,  of-Georgia,  do-yon,  figure-it-is, 
four- forty-one,  I-should-say-that-that-is,  I-would-like-you-to- 
state-whether-the,  nineteen-hundred,  it-was,  in-Georgia,  and- 
South-Carolina,  wasn't-it. 

After  concluding  the  above  outlined  work,  have  the 
matter  contained  on  page  122  dictated  to  you  fifty 
times,  limiting  the  speed  to  that  at  which  you  can 
execute  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  notes. 

PAGE  124 

The  following  phrases  should  be  written  from  dicta- 
tion at  least  fifty  times  at  a  rate  of  speed  at  which  you 
can  make  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  outlines: 

I-think-it-was,     tlireo-an<1-a-quarter,     between-Charleston, 


EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 

ami-Savannah,  three-forty-five,  yes-sir,  and-it-would-make, 
ho\v-much,  would-be,  a-mile,  I-was-under-the,  it-was,  nine- 
teen-thirteen,  two-ninety,  and-is,  on-a,  one-liundred-fifteen, 
tliat-may-be-true,  two-and-a-half,  does-that,  as-though,  it- 
were,  a-mileage,  no-sir,  it-is,  are-you-prepared-to-state,  that- 
that-was-not,  to-be,  I-am-not,  prepared-to-state-that,  you- 
testified,  that-this,  of-your-road,  one-hundred-and-fifty,  two- 
hundred-thousand,  a-year,  it-would,  if-that-is-right,  what- 
would,  a-reduction,  ninety-five,  in-the,  of-a,  I-do-not-know, 
of-course,  it-would-be-many-times. 

After  concluding  the  above  outlined  work,  have  the 
matter  contained  on  page  124  dictated  to  you  fifty 
times,  limiting  the  speed  to  that  at  which  you  can 
execute  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  notes. 

PAGE  126 

The  following  phrases  should  be  written  from  dicta- 
tion at  least  fifty  times  at  a  rate  of  speed  at  which  you 
can  make  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  outlines : 

It-would-be,  nine-and-a-half,  wouldn't-it,  would-be,  one- 
million-nine-hundred-thousand,  a-year,  yes-sir,  and-what- 
would,  a-reduction,  fifty-five,  on-each,  you-can,  figure-that,  I- 
have,  a-million-one-hundred-thousand,  is-that-it,  eighteen- 
ninety-eight,  four-forty,  and-the,  nineteen-hundred,  three- 
forty-five,  and-that-was,  ninety-five,  rate-of,  two-ninety,  that- 
is,  so-the,  of-those,  represent-the,  by-those,  did-you-say,  I-am- 
just,  leading-him,  on-the,  a-passenger,  two-hundred-thousand, 
a-year,  these-total,  which-have-been,  would-make,  an-aggre- 
gate,  three-million,  I- just,  want-to-show,  your-statement,  I- 
would-like-to-know-whether,  you-know,  how-many,  over-that- 
line,  per-annum,  there-is-a-report,  to-the,  Interstate-Com- 
merce-Commission, giving-the,  here-is-the,  I-know-the,  out- 
side-of,  my-line,  ridiculous-the,  of-that,  a-year. 

After  concluding  the  above  outlined  work,  have  the 
matter  contained  on  page  126  dictated  to  you  fifty 
times,  limiting  the  speed  to  that  at  which  you  can 
execute  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  notes. 

40 


EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 

PAGE  Ills 

The  following  phrases  should  he  written  from  dicta- 
tion at  least  lifty  times  at  a  rate  of  speed  at  which  you 
can  make  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  outlines: 

Two-million,  a-ycar,  with-your-testimony,  I-may-assume. 
from-the-figures.  you-gave,  there-must  -be,  forty-five-hun- 
divd.  fifty-eight-hundred,  a-day,  frora-the-points,  to-Savan- 
nali,  ami-points.  I-was-mistaken,  what-is-the,  per-diem,  over- 
that-part-of-the,  for-the,  I-would-say,  that-the,  it-will-be,  five- 
Inindn-d.  and-northward,  I-should-say,  three-hundred,  and- 
in-the.  snnniicr-llic.  and-in-the-winter,  yes-sir,  eight-hundred, 
would-be,  a-fair,  it-would-be,  eighty,  three-hundred-and- 
sixty-five,  on-tlie,  twenty-nine-thousand,  it-would-mean,  is- 
there-anything-forther,  in-this-case,  I-would-like,  offer-in- 
will-lie. 


After  concluding  the  above  outlined  work,  have  the 
matter  contained  on  page  128  dictated  to  you  fifty 
times,  limiting  the  speed  to  that  at  which  you  can 
execute  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  notes. 

PAGE  130 

The  following  phrases  should  be  written  from  dicta- 
tion at  least  fifty  times  at  a  rate  of  speed  at  which  you 
can  make  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  outlines  : 

Do-you,  to-argue,  this-case,  before-the,  it-will,  my-client, 
if-he,  to-go,  to-Washington,  and-argue,  I-shall-do-so,  I-will- 
reserve-the,  you-can,  waive-that,  at-any-time,  yes-sir,  will- 
you-desire,  a-brief,  I-would-like,  to-do-so,  the-complainant's, 
must-be,  twenty-fifth,  give-me,  after-that,  I-have-no-objec- 
tion,  he-may-have-it,  for-all,  I-care,  at-the,  will-be,  and-the. 

After  concluding  the  above  outlined  work,  have  the 
matter  contained  on  page  1'H)  dictated  to  you  fifty 
times,  limiting  the  speed  to  that  at  which  you  can 
execute  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  notes. 

41 


EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 


INTERSTATE  COMMERCE  COMMISSION 
HEARING  TRANSCRIPT 

.  The  following  pages  contain  the  shorthand  notes  and 
their  transcript,  of  the  hearing  before  Examiner 
Smith.  This  matter  should  be  taken  from  dictation  a 
great  many  times,  the  phrasing  carefully  adhered  to, 
and  the  notes  made  as  neatly  as  possible.  First,  how- 
ever, it  would  be  well  to  read  the  shorthand  notes  very 
frequently  and  gain  a  familiarity  with  them  which  will 
enable  you  to  write  them  easily  and  without  hesitation. 
Too  much  work  cannot  be  devoted  to  them  for  the  mak- 
ing of  correct  shorthand  notes  in  one  case  drills  you 
in  the  correct  formation  of  outlines  and  enables  you  to 
write  other  matter  correctly  and  with  the  least-possible 
effort. 

Read  every  outline  you  make.  Get  acquainted  with 
your  own  notes.  After  much  practise  work  on  this 
hearing,  write  it  from  the  beginning  to  the  end  and  then 
transcribe  your  notes  on  the  typewriter  and  compare 
your  transcript  with  that  given  in  this  book. 

First  write  a  "cover  page."  That  may  consist  of 
the  title,  docket  number,  date  and  appearances,  with 
your  name  and  address  as  the  reporter.  Make  the 
second  page  an  "Index"  such  as  is  shown  on  page  43. 
Then  write  the  first  page  of  the  transcript,  as  shown 
on  page  44.  The  third  page  will  begin  the  "Proceed- 
ings" as  shown  on  Pae-e  46. 


42 


EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 


Index  of  Witnesses: 


Direct  Cross 

Exam.  Exam. 

Solomon  Lipman 54  58 

\V.  I).  Hudson <iL> 

(  omplainant  Rests 72 

W.J.Craig ....        ..72  108 


Index  of  Exhibits: 


Complainant's  Ex.  A.,  Witness  Lipman 68 

Complainant's  Ex.  B.,  Witness  Hudson 68 

Complainant's  Ex.  C.,  Witness  Lipman 72 

Complainant 's  Ex.  D.;  Witness  Lipman 128 


43 


EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 

BEFORE  THE 
INTERSTATE    COMMERCE    COMMISSION 


SOLOMON  LIPMAN, 

Complainant, 
vs. 

ATLANTIC  COAST  LINE  RAILROAD 
COMPANY, 

Defendant. 


Docket  No.  6042. 


Savannah,  Georgia,  January  13,  1914.     10 : 00  a.  m. 

BEFORE : 

J.  EDGAR  SMITH,  Special  Examiner. 

Met  pursuant  to  notice. 

APPEARANCES : 

GEORGE   W.   BECKETT,    (Beaufort,    South    Carolina), 
Attorney  for  the  Complainant. 

R.  WALTON  MOORE,  Esq.,  (Washington,  D.  C.),  by 

M.    P.    CALLAWAY,    Esq.,    appearing   for    the    Atlantic 
Coast  Line  Railroad  Company,  Defendant. 


•'',.''.  ,..,..,    flHj-<bJ 

/  ' 


^j 


^  ~  // 

v 

' 


^£fr     L4jL+&4**t-4*    (  -^ 


/; 


45 


EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 


PROCEEDINGS 

Examiner  Smith:  Gentlemen,  the  Interstate  Commerce 
Commission  has  set  for  hearing  at  this  time  and  place  the 
complaint  of  Solomon  Lipman  against  the  Atlantic  Coast  Line 
Railroad  Company.  This  case  is  known  on  the  docket  as 
No.  6042,  and  was  filed  August  27,  1913.  Is  the  complainant 
ready  ? 

Mr.  Beckett :  Yes,  sir. 

Examiner  Smith:  Is  the  defendant  ready? 

Mr.  Callaway:  Yes,  sir. 

Examiner  Smith:  Before  beginning  this  proceeding,  the 
Examiner  calls  attention  to  the  fact  that  it  is  not  practicable, 
from  the  complaint,  to  tell  just  what  particular  violation 
of  the  Fourth  Section  is  in  issue,  and  that  in  the  event  Fourth 
Section  complications  are  developed,  the  Commission  asks  the 
carrier  to  give  reference  to  the  particular  application  under 
the  Fourth  Section  which  is  relied  upon  as  protecting  the 
rates  in  question.  The  carrier  should  make  at  this  time,  in 
connection  with  this  hearing,  such  defense  of  these  Fourth 
Section  violations  as  would  be  made  in  case  the  formal  appli- 
cation had  been  assigned  for  hearing  in  connection  herewith. 
Or  the  record  should  show  that  the  carrier  makes  such  defense 
and  waives  any  right  that  it  may  have  for  a  formal  hearing, 
in  connection  with  the  particular  Fourth  Section  violations 
which  may  be  involved  in  that  particular  proceeding.  You 
may  proceed,  gentlemen. 

Mr.  Beckett :  We  will  offer  in  evidence  a  letter  from — 

Mr.  Callaway:  I  would  like  for  you  to  state  the  object  of 
this.  T  would  like  yon  to  state  the  points  in  the  complaint 
upon  which  you  expect  to  rely. 


I 


p 


L 


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A.. 


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V 


47 


EXPERT  (JOUKT  llErOHTEH 


Mr.  Beckett:  We  will  show  that  the  fare  from  Ridgeland, 
South  Carolina,  to  Montieth,  Georgia,  is  sixty-five  cents ;  that 
the  fare  from  Montieth,  Georgia,  to  Savannah,  Georgia,  is 
twenty-five  cents;  that  the  fare  from  Ridgeland  to  Savannah 
proper  is  a  dollar — ten  cents  more  than  the  aggregate  of  the 
two  fares ;  that  there  is  a  bridge  for  which  any  excess  charge 
might  be  made  and  that  it  lies  between  Ridgeland  and  Mon- 
tieth, but  no  such  excess  charge  is  made  for  that  part  of  the 
road;  that  the  district  from  Montieth  to  Savannah  is  thor- 
oughly settled  and  therefore  the  suggestion  contained  in  the 
answer  of  the  Atlantic  Coast  Line  that  the  sparsely  settled 
condition  of  the  country  accounted  for  the  ten  cents  difference 
does  not  apply.  That  is  the  sum  and  substance  of  it. 

Examiner  Smith :  There  is  no  question  as  to  the  rate  of 
fare  and  no  question  as  to  the  difference,  is  there?  I  see  in 
the  answer  of  the  Atlantic  Coast  Line  Railroad  Company  that 
the  actual  distance  between  Montieth  and  Ridgeland  is  twenty- 
four  and  a  half  miles  and  between  Montieth  and  Savannah 
is  ten  and  a  half  miles. 

Mr.  Beckett :  There  will  be  no  dispute  about  that,  and  under 
the  circumstances  I  will  not  desire  to  introduce  the  letter. 

Examiner  Smith :  The  answer  goes  on  to  say  that  the  tariff 
on  file  with  this  Commission  shows  the  distance  between 
Savannah  and  Monteith  as  fifteen  miles.  The  defendant 
admits  that  the  rate  of  sixty-five  cents  fare  between  Ridgeland 
and  Monteith  and  that  the  fare  between  Monteith  and  Savan- 
nah is  twenty-five  cents.  Is  it  not  fair  to  assume,  although 
it  is  not  stated  in  the  answer,  that  the  mileage  coupons  col- 
lected from  Ridgeland  and  Monteith  would  be  twentv-five  in 
number,  for  twenty-five  miles,  and  from  Monteith  to  Savan- 
nah ten  in  number,  ten  miles? 


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EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 


Mr.  Beckett:  Yes,  we  had  two  gentlemen  come  down  last 
evening  to  prove  that. 

Examiner  Smith :  If  you  make  the  trip  in  two  parts,  that  is, 
from  Ridgeland  to  Monteith  and  from  Monteith  to  Savannah, 
it  will  be  twenty-five  plus  ten. 

Mr.  Beckett :  That  is  what  happened  yesterday  evening. 
Mr.  W.  D.  Hudson,  a  traveling  man,  did  that  last  night. 

Examiner  Smith:  And  if  the  mileage  book  is  offered  at 
Monteith  for  a  continuous  trip  to  Savannah,  the  number  of 
miles  taken  out  would  be  forty? 

Mr.  Beckett :  My  client  says  thirty-nine. 

Mr.  W.  J.  Craig :  Under  the  tariff  on  file  with  the  Interstate 
Commerce  Commission,  and  according  to  our  regulations,  he 
cannot  take  any  intra-state  mileage  from  a  book  from  Monteith 
to  Savannah.  Our  interchangeable  mileage  ticket  is  not  good 
in  Georgia  points. 

Examiner  Smith :  As  a  tariff  proposition  it  is  impossible, 
you  say  ? 

Mr.  Craig :  Yes,  sir. 

Examiner  Smith:  The  complainant  offers  to  prove  by  two 
witnesses  that  as  a  matter  of  fact  it  is  done. 

Mr.  Craig:  If  it  is  done,  it  is  a  violation  of  the  tariff  and  a 
violation  of  our  rules  and  regulations. 

Examiner  Smith :  Formerly,  it  was  true,  was  it  not  ? 


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EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 


Mr.  Craig:  No,  sir.  On  the  contrary  we  took  thirty-nine 
and  five-tenths  miles  or  forty  miles.  The  combination  was  not 
fixed  according  to  the  tariff  and  according  to  our  instructions 
there  is  no  tariff  that  would  warrant  that  statement. 

Examiner  Smith :  Now,  just  to  get  this  straight  in  the 
record,  suppose  at  the  present  time  we  arrive  at  the  mileage 
from  Ridgeland  to  Monteith.  How  many  miles  would  be 
pulled  ? 

Mr.  Craig:  Ridgeland  to  Monteith,  we  would  pull  twenty- 
five. 

Examiner  Smith :  I  understand  that  at  present  the  intra- 
state  mileage  is  not  good  in  the  State  of  Georgia  so  you  could 
not  pull  anything  from  Monteith  into  Savannah.  Prior  to 
that  change  in  the  tariff,  from  Ridgeland  to  Monteith  would 
it  be  twenty-five  miles  ? 

Mr.  Craig:  Ridgeland  to  Monteith,  yes,  sir,  and  Monteith 
to  Savannah,  fifteen  miles. 

Examiner  Smith  :  Now,  how  late  was  that  effective  ? 

Mr.  Craig :  Our  corrected  regulations  went  into  effect  June 
1,  1912,  my  chief  clerk  tells  me. 

Examiner  Smith :  So  that  the  old  practise  to  which  I  have 
referred  ceased  on  June  1,  1912? 

Mr.  Craig:  I  do  not  know  that  it  existed  prior  to  that  time. 

Examiner  Smith :  But  interstate  mileage  was  good. 


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EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 


Mr.  Craig :  Interstate  mileage  was  good  until  December  17, 
of  the  past  year. 

Examiner  Smith :  Assuming  then  that  a  man  had  interstate 
mileage  to  use  from  Ridgeland  to  Monteith  and  intra-state 
mileage  from  Monteith  to  Savannah — is  there  such  a  thing? 

Mr.  Craig :  Yes,  sir. 

Examiner  Smith :  How  much  would  be  pulled  in  that  case 
from  Monteith  to  Savannah  ? 

Mr.  Craig:  Under  the  orders  of  the  Railroad  Commission 
of  Georgia,  we  pull  ten  miles  from  Monteith  to  Savannah,  but 
it  would  require  the  purchase  of  two  books,  and  we  under- 
stand that  the  Commission  has  ruled  on  the  combination  of 
any  two  rates. 


SOLOMON  LIPMAN  was  called  as  a  witness,  and  having 
been  duly  sworn  testified  as  follows : 

DIRECT  EXAMINATION 

Mr.  Beckett :  What  is  your  name  ? 

Mr.  Lipman :  Solomon  Lipman. 

Mr.  Beckett:  Where  do  you  live,  Mr.  Lipman? 

Mr.  Lipman :  Ridgeland,  South  Carolina. 

Mr.  Beckett :  Are  you  the  complainant  in  this  case  ? 

Mr.  Lipman  :  I  am. 

Mr.  Beckett:  Do  you  travel  occasionally  between  Ridgeland 
and  Savannah? 

Mr.  Lipman :  I  do,  quite  often,  and  my  family  does,  too. 

Mr.  Beckett :  Now,  Mr.  Lipman,  I  will  ask  you  to  state 
whether  or  not  you  have  ever  traveled  on  a  mileage  book? 

Mr.  Lipman :  No,  sir. 


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EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 


Mr.  Beckett:  Now,  Mr.  Lipman,  will  you  please  state 
whether  or  not  you  have  observed  the  requirements  of  the 
railroad  in  mileage  books  for  passage  from  Ridgeland  to 
Savannah  ? 

Mr.  Callaway:  I  object  to  the  question  for  the  reason  that 
you  cannot  change  the  effect  of  any  legal  tariff  by  testimony 
of  what  was  done.  The  construction  of  a  tariff  is  a  matter 
of  law  and  is  confined  to  that.  If  it  is  the  purpose  to  prove 
the  custom — 

Mr.  Beckett :  I  want  to  prove  the  actual  practise. 

Mr.  Lipman:  I  observed  it  last  night  and  I  observed  it 
before. 

Mr.  Beckett:  You  have  observed  the  requirements  of  the 
railroad  in  mileage  books  for  passage  between  those  two 
places. 

Mr.  Lipman :  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Beckett :  How  long  has  it  been  under  your  observation  ? 

Mr.  Lipman:  Oh,  for  some  years.  I  have  been  watching 
these  matters  for  several  years. 

Mr.  Beckett:  Did  you  have  occasion  yesterday  to  notice 
particularly  the  mileage  pulled  for  this  distance  between 
Ridgeland  and  Savannah  and  Monteith  and  Savannah? 

Mr.  Lipman :  I  did,  last  night. 

Mr.  Beckett :  What  mileage  was  pulled,  and  from  whom, 
between  Ridgeland  and  Monteith  ? 

Mr.  Lipman :  The  agent,  Mr.  Page,  did  not  know  the  exact 
mileage  and  I  told  him  it  was  twenty-five  miles  that  he  was 
entitled  to  pull  and  he  pulled  twenty-five  miles  out  of  Mr. 
Hudson's  book  last  night. 

Mr.  Beckett :  What  is  the  fare  from  Ridgeland  to  Savannah 
when  you  buy  a  ticket? 

Mr.  Lipman :  It  is  a  dollar. 


" 


EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 


Mr.  Beckett :  What  is  the  fare  from  Ridgeland  to  Monteith 
when  you  buy  a  ticket? 

Mr.  Lipman :  Sixty-five  cents. 

Mr.  Beckett:  I  would  like  to  know  how  you  know  that? 

Mr.  Lipman:  I  paid  sixty-five  cents  last  night  for  ticket 
No.  581,  from  Ridgeland  to  Monteith. 

Mr.  Beckett:  I  will  ask  if,  on  yesterday  evening,  you  pur- 
chased a  ticket  from  Ridgeland  to  Savannah? 

Mr.  Lipman:  I  did,  No.  1942,  Ridgeland  to  Savannah,  for 
which  I  paid  a  dollar. 

Mr.  Beckett:  Did  you  pay  on  the  train  from  Monteith.  to 
Savannah  ? 

Mr.  Lipman :  I  did. 

Mr.  Beckett :  How  much  ? 

Mr.  Lipman :  Twenty-five  cents.  There  is  the  slip  (handing 
paper  to  Mr.  Beckett). 

CROSS  EXAMINATION 

Mr.  Callaway:  It  seems  to  me,  Mr.  Lipman,  that  you  are 
familiar  with  the  making  of  memoranda  and  things  of  that 
sort. 

Mr.  Lipman :  What  is  that  1 

Mr.  Callaway:  I  say  it  seems  to  me  that  you  are  familiar 
with  the  making  of  memoranda  and  things  of  that  sort. 

Mr.  Lipman:  Yes,  sir,  I  have  been  in  this  matter  in  order 
to  get  it  adjusted — to  try  to  get  the  matter  adjusted. 

Mr.  Callaway:  Yes,  I  see  it  is.  It  is  a  practise  of  yours. 
is  it  not,  Mr.  Lipman,  to  buy  two  tickets,  one  a  local  ticket 


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EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 


to  where  a  train  does  not  stop  and  the  other  a  through  ticket 
to  where  the  train  does  stop,  and  then,  on  the  train,  to  present 
the  local  ticket  and  demand  that  you  be  put  off  at  a  point 
where  the  train  does  not  stop? 

Mr.  Lipman:  Yes,  sir,  if  you  want  to  get  the  matter  in 
shape,  you  have  to  prepare  for  it. 

Mr.  Callaway :  Do  you  mean  to  say  that  you  have  observed 
many  times  that  the  interstate  mileage  was  pulled  from  Ridge- 
land  to  Monteith  and  the  intra-state  mileage  from  Monteith 
to  Savannah?  Are  you  willing  to  swear  to  that? 

Mr.  Lipman :  I  have  a  ticket  in  my  satchel  showing  it  was 
pulled  for  twenty-five  miles  from  Ridgeland  to  Monteith. 

Mr.  Callaway:  Is  there  any  dispute  about  that  twenty-five 
miles  from  Ridgeland  to  Monteith? 

Mr.  Lipman :  Yes,  sir,  there  is. 

Mr.  Callaway:  That  is  an  interstate  ticket  that  has  been 
pulled  for  twenty-five  miles  ? 

Mr.  Lipman :  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Callaway:  Was  that  your  ticket? 

Mr.  Lipman :  No,  sir,  it  belongs  to  a  friend. 

Mr.  Callaway:  Now,  Mr.  Lipman,  do  you  mean  to  tell  us 
that  you  have  frequently  observed  that  when  you  got  to  Mon- 
teith and  came  on  from  Monteith,  the  conductor  pulled  ten 
miles  from  Monteith  into  Savannah,  or  something  like  that? 

Mr.  Lipman :  I  cannot  say  whether  or  not  I  observed  it,  but 
I  have  heard  the  traveling  men  talk  about  it.  I  keep  a  hotel 
and  the  traveling  men  stop  at  my  hotel,  and  they  talked  about 
the  matter. 


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EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 


Mr.  Callaway:  How  long  have  you  been  hearing  them  say 
that,  Mr.  Lipman? 

Mr.  Lipman :  Ever  since  I  had  the  matter  up  with  the 
Railroad  Commission  of  the  State  of  Georgia,  they  have  pulled 
it  since  that  time,  but  not  before. 

Mr.  Callaway :  You  know,  of  course,  that  this  Georgia  mile- 
age book  was  not  issued  until  December  17,  1913  ? 

Mr.  Lipman :  I  do  not  know  whether  that  mileage  book  was 
purchased  or  not,  but  Mr.  Hudson  had  a  book — 

Mr.  Callaway :  These  times  that  you  have  observed  that  the 
Georgia  mileage  was  pulled  out  of  the  book  for  ten  miles — 

Mr.  Lipman :  No,  no.  I  was  told  that  by  the  traveling  men 
who  stopped  at  my  place. 

Mr.  Callaway :  And  at  that  time  that  book  was  not  issued  ? 

Mr.  Lipman :  I  do  not  know  anything  about  the  books  that 
have  not  been  issued. 

Mr.  Callaway:  You  do  not  know  what  kind  of  a  book  it 
was? 

Mr.  Lipman :  No,  I  do  not. 

Mr.  Callaway:  You  do  not  know  whether  it  was  pulled  or 
not?  You  do  not  know  anything  about  it.  That  is  all. 


W.  D.  HUDSON  was  called  as  a  witness,  and  having  been 
duly  sworn  testified  as  f olloAvs : 

DIRECT  EXAMINATION 

Mr.  Beckett:  Will  you  please  state  your  name  and  occupa- 
tion, Mr.  Hudson? 

Mr.  Hudson :  "W.  D.  Hudson,  general  merchandise. 

Mr.  Beckett:  Where  is  your  place  of  business? 

Mr.  Hudson :  Ridgeland,  South  Carolina. 

Mr.  Beckett :  Now,  I  would  like  to  know  whether  or  not 
you  have  a  mileage  book  which  you  bought  from  the  Atlantic 
Coast  Line  Railroad  Company? 

Mr.  Hudson :  Yes,  sir. 


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EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 


Mr.  Beckett:  Now,  Mr.  Hudson,  I  would  like  to  know  how 
often  you  travel  between  Eidgeland  and  Savannah  ? 

Mr.  Hudson :  Two  or  three  times  a  month. 

Mr.  Beckett:  I  would  like  to  know  whether  or  not,  in 
traveling  between  Ridgeland  and  Savannah,  you  have  had 
your  mileage  pulled  from  Ridgeland  to  Savannah? 

Mr.  Hudson :  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Beckett :  And  will  you  please  state  whether  or  not  you 
have  had  it  pulled  from  Monteith  to  Savannah? 

Mr.  Hudson :  No,  sir.  The  conductor  claims  that  under  the 
law  it  could  not  be  pulled  in  the  state  that  you  use  the  mileage 
on.  He  said  that  the  distance  from  Monteith  was  ten  miles 
and  he  charged  me  a  quarter.  That  was  last  night. 

Mr.  Beckett:  Did  you  start  from  Ridgeland  to  come  to 
Savannah  ? 

Mr.  Hudson:  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Beckett:  "What  is  the  fare  from  Ridgeland  to 
Savannah  ? 

Mr.  Hudson:  It  is  a  dollar. 

Mr.  Beckett :  You  did  not  pay  a  dollar,  did  you  ? 

Mr.  Hudson:  I  never  have  paid  a  dollar,  because  I  use 
mileage  and  they  always  pull  thirty-nine  miles. 

Mr.  Beckett :  You  did  not  get  off  the  train  ? 

Mr.  Hudson:  No,  sir,  I  notified  the  conductor  I  was  not 
going  to  get  off. 

Mr.  Beckett:  And  you  completed  an  interstate  trip,  did 
you  not  ? 

Mr.  Hudson:  The  mileage  we  use  can  not  be  used  in  the 
State  of  Georgia,  and  I  bought  it  in  Richmond,  Virginia. 
That  is  Atlantic  Coast  Line  mileage. 

Mr.  Beckett :  Now,  on  the  question  of  the  distance  between 
Charleston,  South  Carolina,  and  Savannah,  Georgia,  on  the 
Atlantic  Coast  Line,  1  want  to  show  that  the  Union  Station 


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EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 


has  no  distance  placed  on  it  at  all,  but  that  the  115  miles  is 
to  the  Bolton  Street  station.  The  Bolton  Street  station  is 
farther  than  the  other.  I  have  received  an  Atlantic  Coast 
Line  report  to  the  Railroad  Commission  of  South  Carolina, 
contained  on  page  199  of  the  33rd  annual  report. 

Examiner  Smith :  What  is  the  date  of  that  report  ? 

Mr.  Beckett :  1911.  It  was  the  only  copy  that  I  could  get. 
On  page  193  of  this  same  report,  the  Southern  Railway  gives 
the  distance  from  Hardyville  to  Savannah,  Union  Station, 
as  fourteen  miles — wait  a  minute,  I  have  got  to  figure  this 
out — 20.4  miles,  while  the  distance  from  Hardyville  by  the  At- 
lantic Coast  Line  as  shown  by  their  report  is  24.5  miles.  I 
do  not  think  there  is  any  dispute  that  they  run  over  the  same 
tracks. 

Mr.  Callaway:  May  I  see  that  a  moment? 

Examiner  Smith :  Did  you  wish  to  introduce  the  rate  ? 

Mr.  Beckett:  I  shall  have  a  fare  receipt  from  Monteith  to 
Savannah. 

Examiner  Smith :  Which  Mr.  Hudson  got  last  night  for 
part  of  this  trip  from  Ridgeland  to  Savannah  ? 

Mr.  Beckett:  That  is  right,  yes,  sir,  completing  the  trip. 

Mr.  Callaway:  Mr.  Hudson,  this  cash  fare  proposition  has 
been  in  use  since  the  change  in  the  mileage  book? 


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Mr.  Hudson :  It  happened  last  night.  I  have  paid  it  before 
once  or  twice  when  I  made  the  trip  from  Monteith.  I  used 
to  go  to  Monteith  to  see  parties  there  and  I  would  come  to 
Savannah  rather  than  stay  around  Monteith.  I  do  not  remem- 
ber the  cash  fare  I  paid  at  that  time. 

Mr.  Callaway :  That  was  the  first  time  you  ever  did  that  ? 

Mr.  Hudson :  Oh,  no,  I  have  done  it  often  besides  that  time. 
Sometimes  I  would  get  off  the  train  and  then  get  on  again. 

Mr.  Callaway:  What  was  the  occasion  or  reason  of  your 
doing  that — 

Mr.  Hudson :  To  break  the  trip. 

Mr.  Callaway: — if  you  could  use  the  mileage? 

Mr.  Hudson :  I  did  not  use  no  mileage. 

Mr.  Callaway-  This  time  you  did  not  get  off  the  train,  did 
you? 

Mr.  Hudson :  No,  I  did  not. 

Examiner  Smith :  There  are  two  cash  fare  receipts  for 
twenty-five  cents,  I  believe.  One  is  offered  by  Mr.  Lipmaii 
and  the  other  by  Mr.  Hudson.  They  are  similar,  I  believe, 
in  every  respect  and  both  were  received  last  night. 

Mr.  Callaway :  It  is  not  disputed  that  both  were  used  on  a 
trip  intended  from  the  beginning  to  be  an  interstate  trip,  I 
take  it,  from  Rid^eland  to  Savannah. 

Examiner  Smith  :  They  will  be  received  in  evidence. 

The  receipt  so  offered  and  identified,  was  received 
in  evidence  and  thereupon  marked  "Lipman  Exhibit 
No.  A,  received  in  evidence  January  13,  1914,"  and  is 
attached  hereto. 

The  other  receipt  referred  to,  so  offered  and  iden- 
tified, was  received  in  evidence  and  thereupon 
marked  "Hudson  Exhibit  No.  B.,  received  in  evidence 
January  13,  1914,"  and  is  attached  hereto. 


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EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 


Mr.  Beckett :  I  will  offer  in  evidence  a  copy  of  a  letter  signed 

by  is  there  objection  to  this  offer  because  of  its  being 

a  copy? 

Mr.  Callaway :  No,  sir. 

Mr.  Beckett :  I  will  offer  in  evidence  a  copy  of  a  letter  signed 
by  "W.  J.  Craig,  addressed  to  the  Railroad  Commission  of  the 
State  of  Georgia,  dated  March  30,  1907,  referring  to  the  com- 
plaint of  Mr.  S.  Lipman,  of  Ridgeland,  in  which  he  says: 

"Referring  to  the  complaint  of  Mr.  S.  Lipman,  of 
Ridgeland,  South  Carolina,  in  regard  to  the  matter 
of  the  rate  assessed  between  Monteith  and  Savannah, 
Georgia,  by  referring  to  our  local  passenger  tariff, 
in  effect  July  1,  1904,  I.  C.  C.  No.  A-86,  page  79,  it 
will  be  seen  that  Monteith  is  shown  to  be  in  South 
Carolina  instead  of  Georgia,  and  the  distance  is  14.4 
miles.  I  am  unable  to  explain  how  this  mistake 
should  have  crept  into  the  tariff.  Monteith  is  a  small 
flag  station,  and  this  happened  to  be  the  first  time 
that  this  mistake  has  been  brought  to  our  attention. 
The  correct  distance  from  Monteith  to  the  Union 
Station  should  be  ten  and  a  fraction  miles,  charged 
to  the  eleven  miles  tariff,  thirty-three  cents.  We 
shall  proceed  to  correct  accordingly  at  once." 


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EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 

The  letter  so  offered  and  identified,  was  received 
in  evidence  and  thereupon  marked  "Lipman  Exhibit 
No.  C.,  received  in  evidence  January  13,  1914,"  and 
is  attached  hereto. 

Mr.  Beckett :  I  think,  Mr.  Examiner,  that  is  all  we  have. 
Whereupon  the  Complainant  rested. 

Whereupon  the  Defendant  offered  the  following 
evidence. 


W.  J.  CRAIG,  was  called  as  a  witness,  and  having  been 
duly  sworn  testified  as  follows: 

DIRECT    EXAMINATION 

Mr.  Callaway:  Your  name  is  W.  J.  Craig? 

Mr.  Craig1:  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Callaway :  You  are  Traffic  Manager  of  the  Atlantic 
Coast  Line  Railroad  Company,  and  in  charge  of  the  pas- 
senger affairs  of  the  Atlantic  Coast  Line? 

Mr.  Craig:  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Callaway :  Please  state  whether  or  not  you  are  in 
charge  of  the  matters  at  issue  in  this  case,  Mr.  Craig? 

Mr.  Craig :  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Callaway:  Are  you  familiar  with  the  passenger  busi- 
ness and  the  adjustments,  and  have  you  been  for  many  years, 
Mr.  Craig? 

Mr.  Craig:  Yes.  sir. 

Mr.  Callaway:  You  have  been  connected  with  the  Atlantic 
Coast  Line  Railroad  Company  and  are  familiar  with  the 
passenger  business  for  about  how  many  years? 

Mr.  Craig:  About  eleven  and  a  half  years. 

Mr.  Callaway:  Previous  to  that  time,  where  were  you? 

Mr.  Craig:  T  was  with  a  dependent  of  the  Atlantic  Coast 
Line,  the  Charleston,  Western  and  Carolina  Railway  thai- 
covers  this  section.  Tn  fact,  for  thirty  years  T  have  been 
connected  with  the  railroads  running  through  this  particular 
section  of  South  Carolina, 


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Mr.  Callaway:  And  are  you  familiar  with  the  topography 
of  this  country  and  the  agricultural,  industrial,  and  climatic 
conditions,  and  those  general  facts,  as  well  as  the  railroad 
and  passenger  feature  of  it?  Are  they  all  within  your 
knowledge  ? 

Mr.  Craig:  Yes,  sir,  I  am  thoroughly  familiar  with  that. 

Mr.  Callaway :  Now,  Mr.  Craig,  as  to  the  question  of  mile- 
age, I  will  get  you  to  state  the  character  of  the  mileages,  first 
stating  the  former  mileages,  and  why  there  has  been -a  change, 
if  there  has  been  a  change,  in  the  mileages  between  those 
points  ? 

Mr.  Craig :  I  have  here  a  paper — 

Mr.  Callaway :  You  have  a  little  sketch  that  you  have  made 
from  which  you  wish  to  explain  the  location  of  Ridgeland 
and  Monteith  and  Savannah  and  Charleston,  as  well  as  the 
Atlantic  Coast  Line,  and  how  the  Atlantic  Coast  Line  comes 
into  Savannah. 

Mr.  Craig :  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Callaway :  And  its  present  local  station  or  depot,  and 
its-  previews  local  station  or  depot. 

Mr.  Craig :  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Callaway:  I  will  get  you  to  explain  those  facts  with 
reference  to  this  sketch,  and  in  such  a  way  that  the  testimony 
will  show  the  facts  without  the  sketch  being  offered  in  evi- 
dence, starting  at  Ridgeland  and  bringing  it  down  to 
Savannah. 

Mr.  Craig:  The  Atlantic  Coast  Line  distance  from  Charles- 
ton, South  Carolina,  to  Savannah,  Georgia,  was  115  miles. 

Examiner  Smith:  You  say  "was." 

Mr.  Craig:  Yes.  That  is  the  distance  we  use  now  in  our 
tariffs  and  in  our  computations  of  through  rates  and  local 


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rates  and  everything  else.  It  passes  along  through  the  tide- 
water section  of  lower  South  Carolina,  a  section  traversed  by 
eight  or  nine  rivers.  It  is  a  very  low  section  and  has  less 
white  population  per  square  mile  than  possibly  any  other 
section  of  the  Southern  States. 

Examiner  Smith:  The  population,  with  both  white  and 
black,  is  not  very  dense,  is  it  ? 

Mr.  Craig:  No,  sir,  the  population  is  very  small.  I  have 
the  population  that  goes  along  with  that,  but  the  population 
in  this  particular  county,  that  is,  Beaufort  County — 

Examiner  Smith:  That  is  where  Ridgeland  is  located? 

Mr.  Craig:  That  is  where  Ridgeland  is  located,  sir.  The 
population  of  this  particular  county  is  but  3963.  It  has  that 
number  of  white  people  in  it.  There  is  an  area  of  920  square 
miles,  or  an  average  of  only  4.3  persons  to  the  square  mile, 
and  the  colored  forms  86.9  of  the  total  population,  the  white 
population  being  13.1  per  cent. 

Examiner  Smith :  That  would  be  how  many  colored  people  ? 

Mr.  Craig:  The  entire  population  is  30,355,  and  only  3963 
are  white.  Beaufort  County  actually  shows  a  decrease  in 


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population  in  the  last  ten  years,  the  percentage  of  decrease 
being  14.5  per  cent.  The  figures  I  get  from  the  United 
States  Census  and  we  have  before  us  one  of  the  maps. 

Mr.  Callaway :  Do  you  mean  to  say  that  by  the  colors  on  the 
map  it  shows  which  counties  have  an  increase  and  which  have 
a  decrease  in  population  ? 

Mr.  Craig:  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Callaway:  Showing  the  percentage  of  the  population 
and  the  percentages  of  the  increase  and'  the  decrease  ? 

Mr.  Craig :  The  percentage  of  the  increase  and  the  decrease, 
acj  well  as  the  percentage  of  the  population. 

Examiner  Smith:  Mr.  Craig  refers  to  a  bulletin  of  the 
thirteenth  Census  of  the  United  States  headed  "Population 
of  South  Carolina"  and  he  refers  specifically  to  the  map  011 
page  6  of  said  bulletin. 

Mr.  Craig:  In  this  entire  distance  of  115  miles,  there  are 
only  three  incorporated  towns,  and  they  are  Ridgeland,  with 
330  people,  Yemassee,  with  250  people,  and  Jacksonboro,  with 
54,  and  the  largest  of  the  towns,  as  you  will  see,  numbers  only 
330  people.  Of  the  entire  population  of  the  counties  between 
Charleston  and  Savannah,  68.8  per  cent,  are  negroes  and  only 
31.2  are  white,  and  it  is  generally  admitted  that  the  colored 


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population  furnish  practically  no  support  to  a  railroad 
company. 

Mr.  Callaway :  Are  you  willing  to  testify  to  that,  Mr.  Craig? 

Mr.  Craig:  I  do  wish  to  testify  that  the  negro  population, 
especially  in  that  section,  furnish  practically  no  support  to 
our  railroad. 

Mr.  Callaway:  From  an  industrial  and  agricultural  stand- 
point ? 

Mr.  Craig :  From  an  industrial  and  agricultural  standpoint, 
yes,  sir,  and  that  they  only  go  on  occasions  of  excursions  and 
their  funds  are  soon  exhausted.  They  occasionally  go  on 
excursions,  and  they  must  be  very  low  rate  excursions. 

Mr.  Callaway :  What  is  the  source  of  livelihood  of  the  negro 
population  between  Charleston  and  Savannah,  particularly 
in  Savannah? 

Mr.  Craig :  I  do  not  know.  Now  I  will  take  up  the  manu- 
facturing feature.  There  are  no  industrial  plants  that  I  know 
of  between  Ridgeland  and  Savannah,  none  that  I  am 
acquainted  with  certainly  in  Beaufort  County. 

Mr.  Callaway :  Describe  the  topographical  situation,  begin- 
ning at  Charleston,  pointing  out  the  location  of  Ridgeland 
and  Monteith  and  the  general  surroundings  there? 

Mr.  Craig:  It  is  a  low  coastal  plain.  It  is  bisected  by 
oight  rivers.  The  construction  and  operation  of  the  line  is 
very  expensive  because  of  the  bridges  and  trestles.  "We  are 
now  engaged  in  replacing  every  one  of  those  bridges  with 


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EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 


heavy  steel  structures,  a  large  majority  of  them,  and  we  are 
putting  in  there  an  automatic  derailing  device,  as  a  protec- 
tion to  life  and  property.  Those  derailing  devices  cost  five 
or  six  thousand  dollars  each  and  the  new  bridges  about  one 
hundred  thousand.  The  river  spreads  out  and  we  have  all 
the  rain  and  water  from  above. 

Mr.  Callaway :  Do  you  mean  the  flood  tide  ? 

Mr.  Craig:  Yes,  sir.  "We  get  that  from  all  the  rivers  in 
South  Carolina  because  we  are  down  on  the  coastal  plain 
where  there  is  no  fall  to  the  river.  It  requires  constant  atten- 
tion, and  the  expense  of  trestles  and  replacing  them  and  the 
expense  of  the  frequent  bridges,  makes  it  the  most  expensive 
part  of  our  line  to  operate. 

Mr.  Callaway:  I  will  ask  you  then  if  it  is  not  a  fact  that 
in  this  particular  section  of  the  country  you  have  the  least 
remunerative  road  and  at  the  same  time  one  of  the  most 
expensive  to  operate  and  maintain?  Is  that  a  correct 
statement  ? 

Mr.  Craig:  Yes,  sir.  I  am  sorry  to  say  that  that  section 
of  the  country  has  not  improved,  but  on  the  contrary,  has 
gone  back  for  the  last  twenty  years. 

Mr.  Callaway:  And  will  you  please  state  whether  or  not 
your  road  has  had  a  reduction  in  rates? 

Mr.  Craig:  Yes,  sir. 


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Mr.  Callaway:  About  how  far  is  it  from  Charleston  to 
Ridgeland,  Mr.  Craig? 

Mr.  Craig :  It  is  75.5  miles. 

Mr.  Callaway:  Now,  Mr.  Craig,  at  Ridgeland,  that  is  the 
point  covered  by  the  complaint.  What  are  the  conditions 
from  there  to  Monteith  ?  Do  you  cross  any  rivers  or  swamps  ? 

Mr.  Craig:  Yes,  sir,  we  cross  the  Savannah  River  swamps 
which  are  the  worst  on  the  line.  That  is  about  two  miles 
wide,  and  we  have  just  bridged  it,  and  it  is  probably  the  most 
modern  railway  construction  in  this  country.  It  cost  $474,000. 

Mr.  Callaway :  Now,  I  will  ask  you  to  state  whether  or.  not 
you  travel  through  a  swamp  down  to  Monteith? 

Mr.  Craig:  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Callaway :  About  how  many  miles  is  that  ? 

Mr.  Craig:  Thirty-five  miles. 

Mr.  Callaway :  Please  state  what  Monteith  is  ?  Is  it  a  town 
or  station,  or  what  is  it? 

Mr.  Craig:  It  is  a  hamlet,  We  have  no  station  at  Mon- 
teith. It  is  a  cross-road  which  has  been  in  existence  thirty  or 
forty  years. 

Mr.  Callaway:  It  is  the  first  stopping  point  across  the 
Georgia  line. 

Examiner  Smith :  South  of  the  Savannah  River  ? 

Mr.  Craig:  South  of  the  Savannah  River,  yes,  sir.  It  is  a 
little  west  of  the  Savannah  River  from  the  - 

Examiner  Smith :  South  of  the  Savannah  River  or  west  ? 


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Mr.  Callaway:  It  is  merely  a  point  on  which  to  base  the 
combination  rate? 

Mr.  Craig :  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Callaway :  Have  you  an  agent  at  Monteith  ? 

Mr.  Craig:  No,  sir.  The  town  is  not  incorporated.  It  is 
not  shown  in  the  United  States  Census  and  has  no  population 
at  all. 

Mr.  Callaway :  I  will  ask  you  if  you  will  describe  that  par- 
ticular locality,  the  topographical,  agricultural,  and  other 
conditions,  from  Monteith  down  to  Savannah,  and  state 
whether  or  not  it  is  thickly  populated  ? 

Mr.  Craig:  The  distance  from  Ridgeland  to  the  Savannah 
River  is  in  Beaufort  County  that  has  shown  a  decrease  in  the 
last  ten  years  of  five  thousand  in  population.  After  we  cross 
the  river  we  have  Chatham  County,  and  it  is  well  known 
that  the  population  of  Chatham  County  is  in  the  City  of 
Savannah  and  there  is  little  rural  population. 

Mr.  Callaway:  I  would  like  to  know  whether  there  is  dry 
or  wet  land  between  here  and  Monteith. 

Mr.  Craig :  There  are  swamps  for  quite  a  distance,  and  then 
we  run  along  a  ridge  just  back  of  the  river. 

Mr.  Callaway :  Mr.  Craig,  I  will  get  you  to  state  where  the 
station  of  the  Atlantic  Coast  Line  was  located  at  Savannah 
before  it  was  changed,  what  the  exact  mathematical  mileage 
would  be  between  Monteith  and  the  present  station,  why  the 
mileage  was  not  changed  and  why  it  is  maintained  on  the 
present  basis.  I  would  like  you  to  state  what  you  did  for 
Savannah  in  the  changing  of  the  station  and  in  the  building 
of  the  new  station,  and  what  the  present  conditions  are,  com- 
pared with  the  conditions  before? 


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Mr.  Craig :  Now,  when  this  case  was  heard 

Examiner  Smith:  This  case? 

Mr.  Craig:  A  case  similar  to  this  case  was  heard  before — 

Mr.  Callaway:  Just  a  minute.  I  will  state  that  that  was 
the  case  of  the  Savannah  Bureau  of  Freight  and  Transporta- 
tion .versus  the  Charleston  and  Savannah  Railroad  Company 
I.  C.  C.  No.  -  -  well,  it  was  decided  March  24,  1898. 

Examiner  Smith:  This  report  of  the  Interstate  Commerce 
Commission  is  headed  "passenger  fares"  and  the  proper  title 
of  it  is  "Savannah  Bureau  of  Freight  and  Transportation," 
naming  the  commissioners,  "versus  the  Charleston  and  Savan- 
nah Railway  Company  and  others,"  decided  March  24,  1898. 
The  docket  number  of  the  case  is  not  given,  but  the  report  and 
order  of  the  Commission  were  prepared  by  Knapp,  Chairman. 

Mr.  Callaway :  I  would  like  to  know  whether  the  Charleston 
and  Savannah  Railway  Company,  one  of  the  defendants  in 
that  hearing,  was  a  component  part  of  the  Plant  system? 

Mr.  Craig:  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Callaway :  And  it  is  now  a  part  of  the  Atlantic  Coast 
Line  Railroad  Company? 

Mr.  Craig:  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Callaway:  Proceed  with  your  explanation  of  that 
situation. 

Mr.  Craig:  At  that  hearing,  at  the  time  the  case  was  pre- 
sented, and  to  May,  1902,  the  tracks  from  the  north  went  com- 
pletely around  the  city  and  came  in  on  the  southeastern  side 
of  the  city  away  down  probably  two  miles  from  here. 


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Mr.  Callaway :  Two  miles  from  this  building  ? 

Mr.  Craig :  No,  probably  two  miles  from  the  present  Union 
Station.  That  was  an  old  station,  a  wooden  structure,  and 
since  that  time  the  company,  in  connection  with  the  Southern 
Railway  and  the  Seaboard  Air  Line,  constructed  a  new 
modern  terminal  station  that  our  trains  now  go  into,  at  a 
cost  of  about  $742,000.  In  the  location  of  this  new  station 
we  had  in  view  its  convenience  to  the  business  section,  its 
convenience  to  the  wharves,  its  convenience  to  the  other 
transportation  interests  here,  its  convenience  to  the  steam- 
ship lines,  and  its  convenience  to  the  Central  of  Georgia.  In 
other  words,  it  was  put  at  a  location  that  has  served  the  best 
interests  of  the  Savannah  patrons. 

Examiner  Smith:  Is  the  old  station  still  maintained  at  all? 

Mr.  Craig:  Only  as  to  freight.  It  is  alongside  of  our 
freight  station. 

Mr.  Callaway:  There  is  only  one  passenger  station  in 
Savannah  for  the  Atlantic  Coast  Line  Railroad  Company, 
that  is  the  Union  Station,  and  with,  relation  to  this  federal 
building,  the  new  station  is  about  a  mile  to  the  east,  is  it  not  ? 

Mr.  Craig:  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Callaway :  And  the  old  station  was  about  a  mile  toward 
the- 

Mr.  Craig:  More  than  a  mile  in  that  direction  (indicating). 

Examiner  Smith:  What  direction  is  that? 

Mr.  Craig:  If  I  have  my  geography  correct,  I  think  it  is 
southeasterly  direction. 

Mr.  Callaway:  For  the  convenience  of  the  city  and  the 
development  of  its  traffic,  and  your  own  traffic,  you  built  this 
large  new  Union  Station.  Is  that  it? 


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Mr.  Craig :  Yes,  sir,  that  is  it. 

Mr.  Callaway :  And  in  so  doing,  when  it  comes  down  to  the 
engineer's  mileage,  you  have  cut  out,  in  getting  down  from 
Monteith  or  Charleston,  how  many  miles  of  actual  running 
around,  as  compared  with  the  old  station  ? 

Mr.  Craig:  We  have  cut  out  approximately  four  miles,  4.1 
miles. 

Mr.  Callaway:  I  will  ask  you  to  state  whether  or  not  in 
going  out  of  Savannah  you  have  increased  the  fare  to  the 
south? 

Mr.  Craig :  No,  sir. 

Mr.  Callaway:  The  people  of  Savannah  traveling  to  the 
south,  go  through  what  kind  of  a  country,  I  mean  as  to 
development  ? 

Mr.  Craig:  It  is  more  developed.  A  larger  population  is 
served  south  within  fifty  or  a  hundred  miles  than  to  the 
north. 

Mr.  Callaway:  And  a  passenger,  leaving  at  this  more  con- 
venient station  for  the  south,  pays  no  more  fare  for  this  four 
miles  additional  ? 

Mr.  Craig :  No,  sir ;  but  please  do  not  understand  me  to  say 
that  the  new  line  has  been  lengthened  four  miles  south.  It 
has  been  lengthened  some.  "We  consider  that  it  is  a  Savan- 
nah delivery,  that  we  have  given  a  much  better  location,  that 
it  did  not  affect  their  business  and  should  not  affect  our  rates, 
in  view  of  the  increased  facilities  which  was  given  to  the 
Savannah  traffic.  Depots  are  frequently  changed  throughout 
the  country,  but  there  is  no  change  in  the  rates.  For  instance, 
the  West  Broad  Street  station,  in  Philadelphia,  where  there 
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Mr.  Callaway :  There  has  been  a  change  of  more  than  a  mile 
in  Philadelphia,  has  there  not? 

Mr.  Craig:  A  mile  and  one-third  in  each  direction.  The 
same  is  true  with  Washington.  I  can  cite  the  case  of  the 
Western  Maryland,  where  they  have  two  or  three  stations, 
and  the  rates  are  the  same  to  each  station.  The  same  is  true 
with  the  L.  &  N.  in  Louisville ;  their  Baxter  Avenue  station  is 
about  four  and  a  half  miles  from  their  Union  Station  and  the 
same  rates  apply  from  both  stations. 

Mr.  Callaway :  How  did  it  happen,  Mr.  Craig,  that  the  basis 
for  the  14  miles  upon  which  you  made  your  charge  into 
Savannah  from  Monteith,  was  reduced  to  ten  and  a  fraction 
miles  ? 

Mr.  Craig :  The  case  was  taken  to  the  Railroad  Commission 
of  Georgia  by  Mr.  Lipman,  and  the  State  Railroad  Commis- 
sion made  our  road  fix  a  rate  of  twenty-five  cents  between 
Savannah  and  Monteith. 

Mr.  Callaway:  Do  you  know  whether  or  not  it  was  the 
position  there  that  you  had  a  uniform  mileage  rate  fixed  by 
the  Railroad  Commission  of  the  State  of  Georgia  through 
Georgia  ? 

Mr.  Craig :  Yes,  sir. 

Examiner  Smith :  Mr.  Craig,  is  this  a  fair  deduction  from 
your  testimony  ?  I  understand  that  you  testify  that,  although 
the  mileage  of  your  line  from  the  South  Carolina-Georgia 
line,  and  from  Monteith  particularly,  has  been  reduced  from 
what  it  was  formerly  by  approximately  four  miles 

Mr.  Craig:  Yes,  sir. 


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EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 


Examiner  Smith :  That  so  far  as  you  are  aware,  the  Atlantic 
Coast  Line  Railroad  Company  has  voluntarily  changed  none 
of  the  mileage,  certainly  none  of  the  interstate  mileage,  either 
inbound  or  outbound,  and  that  the  fares  into  and  out  of 
Savannah  have  not  been  increased  or  decreased  to  correspond 
with  the  exact  mathematical  changes  in  the  location  of  the 
stations. 

Mr.  Craig:  That  is  true,  and  it  is  not  true,  sir.  I  would 
like  to  state,  Mr.  Examiner,  that  at  the  time  that  case  was 
heard,  the  fare  between  Savannah  and  Monteith  was  $1.40. 
The  present  fare  is  $1.00. 

Examiner  Smith :  I  am  afraid  that  I  stated  my  proposition 
a  little  carelessly.  I  did  not  mean  that  the  fare  had  not  been 
increased  or  decreased  at  all,  but  I  meant  to  state  that  the 
fares  have  not  been  increased  or  decreased  by  reason  of  the 
change  in  the  distance.  I  do  not  ask  you  if  there  was  any 
lowering  or  raising  in  the  rate,  but  I  do  ask  if  there  has  been 
any  increase  or  decrease  by  reason  of  the  change  in  the  dis- 
tances, and  if  so,  if  they  were  voluntarily  made  ? 

Mr.  Craig :  I  do  not  know  of  any. 

Examiner  Smith  :  With  the  exception  of  the  reduction  made 
from  Monteith,  which  was  made  under  the  order  of  the  Rail- 
road Commission  of  the  State  of  Georgia,  the  Atlantic  Coast 
Line  Railroad  Company  has  not  put  in  any  changed  rates 
interstate  or  intra-state,  by  reason  of  the  change  in  that  sta- 
tion. In  other  words,  it  made  no  changes  voluntarily,  and 
the  change  that  was  made  to  Monteith  was  due  to  the  order 
of  the  Georgia  Railroad  Commission.  Is  that  it? 

Mr.  Craig:  That  is  true,  and  it  is  not  true.  I  am  going  to 
try  to  make  myself  clear  because  I  want  to  make  this  case 
just  as  clear  as  possible.  There  has  been  no  change  b}^  reason 
of  the  change  in  the  distance.  There  was  a  reduction  made  in 
our  rates  brought  about  by  the  adjustment  of  the  Railroad 
Commission  of  the  State  of  Georgia  throughout  the  entire 
territory  and  that  forced  our  rates  down. 


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Examiner  Smith :  But  that  has  nothing  to  do  with  this. 

Mr.  Craig:  No,  sir,  but  I  wanted  to  make  it  clear. 

Mr.  Callaway :  Xow,  Mr.  Craig,  at  the  time  of  the  case  of 
the  Savannah  Bureau  of  Freight  and  Transportation  against 
the  Charleston  and  Savannah,  will  you  please  state  what  the 
fare  was  from  Charleston  to  Ridgeland  and  Savannah,  and  the 
changes  since  that  time,  the  interstate  rates? 

Mr.  Craig:  The  tariffs  were  as  follows:  1898,  Savannah  to 
Charleston,  $4.40;  1900,  $3.45;  1913,  $2.90.  Savannah  to 
Ridgeland,  1898,  $1.49;  1900,  $1.15;  1913,  $1.00.  That  is 
about  33!/4  per  cent,  reduction  in  that  time. 

Mr.  Callaway:  Has  there  been  any  change  in  the  develop- 
ment of  the  country,  in  the  freight  tonnage  and  in  the  pas- 
senger travel,  or  in  the  lessened  expense  of  operation  since 
1898  that  would  justify  less  rates  from  Ridgeland  to  Savan- 
nah now  than  in  1898  ? 

Mr.  Craig:  Since  the  former  Interstate  Commerce  Commis- 
sion decision  has  been  rendered,  the  rice  culture,  which  was 
then  a  very  profitable  industry  in  this  particular  section,  has 
been  practically  wiped  out.  In  the  last  ten  years  there  has 
been  a  reduction  in  the  acres  planted  of  58,160.  That  is  a 
decrease  of  75  per  cent.,  and  in  value  it  means  a  reduction 
of  $846,528.  The  mining  of  phosphate  rock,  which  was  a 


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very  profitable  industry  along  this  section  for  a  number 
of  years,  has  given  way  to  the  Florida  and  Tennessee  rock. 
Thus  the  two  largest  industries  that  were  in  full  blast  twenty 
years  ago  have  passed  entirely  out,  depriving  a  large  number 
of  laborers  of  lucrative  wages,  and  forced  the  people  to  other 
sections.  I  will  state  that  69.2  per  cent,  of  the  entire  area  of 
South  Carolina  is  devoted  to  farms.  In  Beaufort  County 
only  32  per  cent,  of  the  area  is  devoted  to  farms.  Charleston, 
which  is  a  very  productive  county,  so  far  as  cotton  is  con- 
cerned, has  45  per  cent,  and  Colleton  has  55  per  cent.  Taking 
all  of  the  counties  into  consideration  this  section  averages 
but  42  per  cent,  of  its  area  in  farms  as  against  69  per  cent, 
for  the  state.  It  is  a  section  that  has  not  developed,  and  we 
are  spending  our  money  trying  to  develop  it.  It  is  almost 
impossible  to  do  anything  with  it  until  we  get  drainage,  on 
account  of  the  healthfulness  of  the  country. 

Mr.  Callaway :  Do  you  mean  to  say  that  it  is  unhealthy  ? 

Mr.  Craig:  Yes,  sir,  because  of  malaria. 

Mr.  Callaway:  Your  rates  in  1896,  under  the  State  Railroad 
Commission,  were  four  cents  a  mile,  were  they? 

Mr.  Craig:  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Callaway :  "What  are  they  now  ? 

Mr.  Craig- :  Two  and  a  half  cents. 

Mr.  Callaway:  Now,  Mr.  Craig,  will  you  please  explain 
briefly  the  mileage  book  system,  when  the  rate  was  made,  and 
state  whether  or  not  if  the  cash  fares  were  paid,  as  apparently 


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they  were,  there  has  been  time  for  the  rules  and  regulations 
to  permeate  the  road ;  in  other  words,  if  this  was  not  an  excep- 
tion, and  if  it  was  done,  it  was  because  the  conductor  did  not 
understand  the  rules  and  regulations. 

Mr.  Craig:  This  question  of  South  Carolina  mileage  has 
just  been  before  the  Interstate  Commerce  Commission,  and 
they  rendered  a  decision  which  is  familiar  to  you.  In  view 
of  the  state  law  of  South  Carolina,  we  were  compelled  to  with- 
draw that  book  from  use  locally  in  South  Carolina.  The 
Georgia  Commission  recently  promulgated  an  order  and  put 
into  effect  practically  the  same  regulations  which  are  in  effect 
in  South  Carolina  which  forces  the  carriers,  from  our  point 
of  view,  to  withdraw  the  interchangeable  mileage  books  from 
Georgia.  Now,  Mr.  Lipman  knew  that  the  local  fare  from 
Ridgeland  to  Savannah  was  one  dollar.  He  paid  sixty-five 
cents  to  Monteith  in  an  endeavor  to  get  the  tariff  rate.  The 
conductor  was  at  fault  and  it  was  against  his  tariff  instruc- 
tions to  accept  that  interstate  passenger  from  Monteith  to 
Savannah  without  collecting  an  excess  of  fifteen  cents  that  is 
allowed  by  the  Georgia  Commission,  which  would  make  the 
fare  forty  cents  from  Monteith  into  Savannah. 

Examiner  Smith :  The  twenty-five  cents  which  is  allowed — 

Mr.  Craig:  Yes,  sir,  and  fifteen  cents. 

Mr.  Beckett:  I  thought  you  said  that  there  was  no  ticket 
agent  at  Monteith. 

Mr.  Craig :  That  is  right. 


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Mr.  Beckett:  Is  it  possible  for  you  to  collect  that  excess 
fare  where  there  is  no  ticket  agent  ? 

Mr.  Craig :  Yes,  sir,  on  an  interstate  passenger.  The  courts 
have  held  that  he  is  not  a  Monteith  passenger. 

Examiner  Smith:  There  is  no  question  about  that. 

Mr.  Beckett :  I  was  just  trying  to  find  out. 

Examiner  Smith:  As  a  matter  of  fact,  the  witnesses  here 
to-day  are  open  to  prosecution.  I  do  not  think  there  will  be 
any  prosecution  because  it  was  done  to  test  this  case. 

Mr.  Craig:  Mr.  Lipman  should  have  paid  sixty-five  cents 
to  Monteith  and  also  twenty-five  cents  plus  fifteen  cents,  and 
that  would  have  protected  the  integrity  of  our  through  rate. 

Examiner  Smith:  And  that  would  be  $1.05  which  is  five 
cents  higher  than  the  other. 

Mr.  Craig:  Yes,  sir. 

Examiner  Smith :  And  that  would  have  been  correct  accord- 
ing to  the  tariff. 

Mr.  Craig:  Yes,  sir.  Mr.  Hudson  traveled  on  a  mileage 
book  and  they  are  good  for  interstate  journeys.  When  he 
got  to  Ridgeland,  the  conductor  should  have  collected  forty 
cents  from  him. 

Examiner  Smith :  What  is  the  I.  C.  C.  reference  with  regard 
to  those  tariffs? 

Mr.  Craig:  I.  C.  C.  No.  1165,  page  1. 

Mr.  Callaway:  Now,  Mr.  Craig,  suppose  the  rates  were 
built  on  the  basis  asked  for,  what  effect  would  it  have  upon 
the  Atlantic  Coast  Line  Railroad  Company  in  the  grading  and 
in  the  sealing  of  its  rates,  and  what  effect  would  it  have  on 
the  reduction  of  its  revenues? 


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Mr.  Craig:  It  would  mean  a  readjustment  of  our  entire 
tariffs  from  points  north  and  south  of  Savannah ;  it  would 
mean  the  reduction  of  every  rate  we  have  from  points  south  of 
Savannah  and  practically  every  rate  north  of  Savannah.  It 
would  mean  approximately  one  hundred  and  fifty  to  two 
hundred  thousand  dollars  reduction  in  the  revenues  of  the 
Atlantic  Coast  Line  Railroad  Company. 

Mr.  Callaway :  Per  year  ? 

Mr.  Craig :  Per  annum. 

Examiner  Smith :  Mr.  Craig,  have  you  any  idea  of  the  cost 
of  the  republication  of  the  tariffs  involved  ? 

Mr.  Craig:  That  would  be  a  very  expensive  proposition  out- 
side of  the  loss  of  the  revenue,  but  the  loss  of  the  revenue 
would  be  the  controlling  factor. 

Mr.  Callaway:  And  the  continuing  factor? 

Mr.  Craig:  And  the  continuing  factor,  yes,  sir.  It  would 
involve  all  our  rates,  all  our  through  traffic  between  the  north 
and  south. 

Examiner  Smith :  Is  it  possible  for  you  to  give  me  an 
approximation  of  the  cost  of  republication? 

Mr.  E.  R.  Clark  (Assistant  to  Mr.  Craig)  :  It  would  be  five 
or  six  thousand  dollars  for  printing,  without  taking  into  con- 
sideration the  clerical  work. 

Mr.  Callaway:  "What  do  you  think  it  would  cost  aside  from 
the  printing,  Mr.  Clark  ? 

Mr.  Clark :  I  think  it  would  be  at  least  ten  thousand  dollars, 
the  printing  and  clerical  work. 


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EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 


Mr.  Callaway :  Is  there  anything  further  you  desire  to  state  ? 

Mr.  Craig:  I  would  like  to  state  that  that  road  has  been 
practically  rebuilt  and  laid  with  eighty-five  pound  steel  rails, 
ballasted  with  gravel,  the  bridges  have  been  reconstructed, 
and  they  are  getting  a  fine  service,  and  it  is  at  the  expense 
of  the  through  travel — the  through  business — and  during  all 
that  time  the  rates  have  been  reducing. 

Mr.  Callaway:  Just  another  question.  It  was  stated  that 
the  Southern  Railway  in  some  reports  to  the  South  Carolina 
Commission  stated  the  distance  between  Hardyville  and 
Savannah.  Please  refer  to  the  Interstate  Commerce  Com- 
mission tariff  and  state  what  they  show. 

Mr.  Craig:  I  refer  to  I.  C.  C.  No.  2965,  of  the  Southern 
Railway,  page  30,  showing  the  distance  25.1  Hardyville  to 
Savannah. 

Mr.  Callaway :  Is  there  anything  further  you  desire  to  say  ? 

Mr.  Craig :  I  do  not  think  so. 

CROSS   EXAMINATION 

Mr.  Beckett:  The  distance  between  Charleston  and  Savan- 
nah was  115  miles  when  the  Gulf  Line  was  first  built. 

Mr.  Craig:  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Beckett :  And  that  included  a  loop  of  three  or  four 
miles  around  the  city  of  Savannah? 

Mr.  Craig:  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Beckett :  And  that  was  to  accommodate  the  railroad 
with  its  terminal  facilities  on  the  wharf,  wasn't  it,  in  con- 
nection with  shipping — • 


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EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 


Mr.  Craig :  No,  sir.    That  was  the  Bolton  Street  depot. 

Mr.  Beckett :  That  was  called  the  Bolton  Street  depot,  was 
it,  or  the  Liberty  Street  depot? 

Mr.  Craig :  I  mean  the  Liberty  Street  depot. 

Mr.  Callaway :  Bolton  and  Liberty  Streets  intersect  at  that 
place,  don 't  they  ? 

Mr.  Craig:  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Beckett:  Does  this  map  represent  that  old  line  (indi- 
cating) ? 

Mr.  Craig:  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Beckett :  And  it  was  in  order  to  accommodate  shipping 
at  that  time,  that  had  no  wharfage  facilities  above  the  Cen- 
tral- 
Mr.  Craig :  We  have  not  now. 

Mr.  Beckett:  The  Central  wharf  was  the  first  railroad 
wharf  ever  built  in  Georgia,  wasn't  it? 

Mr.  Craig:  I  think  so. 

Mr.  Beckett :  That  railroad  was  constructed  by  General 
Gordon  and  was  the  first  railroad  in  Georgia.  Isn  't  that  true  ? 

Mr.  Craig :  No,  not  the  first  .railroad  in  Georgia,  but  it  was 
one  of  the  first. 

Mr.  Beckett:  "Well,  it  was  the  only  railroad  that  had 
terminals  here  near  the  Gulf  Railroad,  wasn't  it? 

Mr.  Craig:  Yes,  sir;  that  is  right. 

Mr.  Beckett:  That  was  why  I  asked  you  if  it  wasn't  in  order 
to  give  wharfage  facilities  with  the  old  Gulf  Line  that  your 
road  went  around  the  city  to  the  river. 

Mr.  Craig :  I  could  not  tell  you  that.  I  was  not  connected 
with  the  road  then,  and  you  remember  that  they  had  a  line 


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out  here  (indicating  on  the  map),  and  out  south  in  that 
direction  (indicating  on  the  map)  towards  Jackson  Avenue. 

Examiner  Smith:  Now  the  point  of  the  junction  to  which 
the  witness  refers  is  marked  on  this  map  between  ' '  Jackson ' ' 
and  "Savannah  Lumber  Company." 

Mr.  Callaway:  This  triangle  here  is  the  junction  (indicat- 
ing on  the  map). 

Examiner  Smith :  There  is  a  triangle  to  the  left  and  lower 
portion  of  the  map  to  which  reference  is  made. 

Mr.  Beckett :  Now,  Mr.  Craig,  I  will  ask  you  if  when  that 
Union  Station  was  adopted  as  a  passenger  terminal  by  the 
Atlantic  Coast  Line  Railroad  Company,  that  not  only  short- 
ened the  distance  to  be  traveled  going  north  from  Savannah, 
but  also  the  distance  to  be  traveled  going  south,  didn't  it? 

Mr.  Craig:  No,  sir. 

Mr.  Beckett :  Do  you  mean  to  say  then  that  this  map  is  not 
correct  ? 

Mr.  Craig:  According  to  our  engineer's  statement  it 
lengthened  the  distance  going  south. 

Mr.  Beckett :  Then  the  distance  from  this  point  on  this  map, 
(indicating)  at  the  right  hand  side  of  Champion  and  Evans, 
which  is  the  southern  point  of  the  triangle  referred  to  above, 
the  distance  from  this  point  (indicating)  to  the  old  passenger 
depot  here  (indicating)  is  shorter  than  the  distance  from  this 
point  (indicating:)  to  the  new  passenger  depot  at  the  Union 
Station  here  (indicating). 

Mr.  Craig:  I  assume  it  is  because  our  distances  have  been 
increased  going  south. 

Mr.  Beckett :  "What  is  the  amount  of  that  increase,  Mr. 
Craig  ? 

Mr.  Craig :  It  varies  a  mile  or  more ;  it  is  about  a  mile. 
You  understand  that  it  is  not  necessary,  in  view  of  this  being 
a  blind  depot,  for  the  trains  to  perform  additional  mileage. 
In  other  words,  we  back  in  here  (indicating  on  the  map). 


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Mr.  Beckett:  You  back  in  here  (indicating)  ? 

Mr.  Craig:  For  instance,  we  perform  a  service  of  backing 
around  a  "Y"  and  coming  into  the  station,  and  that  increases 
this  distance  of  two  and  three-quarter  miles  to  another  fraction 
of  a  mile. 

Mr.  Beckett :  That  is  probably  what  accounts  for  the  extra 
distance  traveled. 

Mr.  Craig:  Probably  so.    I  don't  know. 

Mr.  Beckett :  I  understood  you  to  say,  Mr.  Craig,  that  one 
of  the  causes  that  should  justify  the  railroad  in  the  increase 
of  ten  «ents  over  the  sum  total  of  the  local  fares  is  the  exist- 
ence of  the  eight  rivers  and  the  bridges  between  Savannah  and 
Charleston. 

Mr.  Craig :  That  is  a  factor. 

Mr.  Beckett:  Now,  isn't  it  a  fact  that  those  rivers  a1!  lie 
between  Monteith  and  Charleston? 

Mr.  Craig :  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Beckett:  And  there  are  no  rivers  between  Monteith 
and  Savannah? 

Mr.  Craig :  No,  sir. 

Mr.  Beckett:  Now,  I  will  ask  you  to  state  whether  or  not 
the  fare  from  Charleston  up  to  any  point  on  the  road,  up  to 
and  including  Monteith,  is  based  upon  actual  mileage. 

Mr.  Craig:  I  do  not  know.  "Will  you  please  look  that  up, 
Mr.  Clark?  (Mr.  Clark  refers  to  papers.)  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Beckett:  And  the  fare  from  Monteith  to  Savannah  is 
based  upon  actual  mileage,  is  it  not? 

Mr.  Craig :  Yes,  sir ;  that  was  fixed  by  the  Georgia  Commis- 
sion. 

Mr.  Beckett :  Now,  Mr.  Craig,  I  would  like  to  know  whether 
or  not  you  have  any  explanation  why  the  ten  cents  is  justi- 
fied in  traveling  from  Charleston  to  Savannah,  and  is  not 
justified  in  traveling  from  Charleston  to  Monteith? 

Mr.  Craig:  Yon  understand,  of  course,  that  the  interstate 
rates,  that  we  do  not  make  all  of  the  rates  on  a  mileage  basis, 
but  in  view  of  the  conditions  surrounding  them  thev  are  fixed 


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at  what  is  deemed  to  be  fair,  and  they  are  fixed  in  accordance 
with  the  law. 

Mr.  Beckett :  Now,  Mr.  Craig,  I  will  ask  you  to  state  what 
the  condition  is  that  applies  between  Ridgeland  and  Savan- 
nah, which  is  not  equally  applicable  between  Ridgeland  and 
Monteith  ? 

Mr.  Craig:  You  understand  that  you  are  dealing  with  a 
question  of  distances,  and  we  do  not  think  our  rates  should  be 
constructed  always  on  distances. 

Mr.  Beckett :  Then,  Mr.  Craig,  I  will  ask  you  if  you  know 
what  the  rates  are  constructed  upon? 

Mr.  Craig :  Well,  they  are  fixed  on  what  would  be  a  proper 
return  for  the  service  performed.  That  is  my  best  judgment. 

Mr.  Beckett :  In  your  judgment  you  -are  entitled  to  that 
extra  ten  cents  upon  the  existence  of  the  various  bridges  and 
the  unsettled  condition  of  the  country.  Now,  Mr.  Craig,  what 
it  is  that  I  would  like  to  know,  why  you  tax  Monteith,  for  it  is 
apparent  that  you  have,  with  that  extra  ten  cents,  instead  of 
the  country  that  has  the  cost  of  those  bridges  ? 

Mr.  Craig :  The  original  tariffs  were  constructed  on  the  de- 
livery in  Savannah.  We  have  changed  the  delivery  in  Savan- 
nah, but  we  have  not  felt  that  the  conditions  warranted  a 
change  in  the  rates.  There  is  absolutely  no  tariff  between 
Charleston  and  Monteith.  Monteith  is  just  a  cross-road  with- 
out a  station  or  anything  but  a  post-office,  and  it  is  only  taken 
here  as  a  basis  for  fixing  our  tariff  rates  governing  practically 
our  entire  business. 

Mr.  Beckett:  Now.  Mr.  Craig,  I  will  take  the  trouble  to 
ask  the  question  over  again.  I  would  like  you  to  state,  what 
the  conditions  are  which  justify  the  railroad  in  charging  this 
extra  fare  between  Monteith  and  Savannah,  and  which  do  not 
apply  when  you  travel  north  from  Monteith. 


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Mr.  Craig:  I  think  I  have  answered  that,  because  there  is 
no  traffic  to  Monteith  and  Monteith  was  not  considered  as  a 
point  from  which  or  to  which  there  would  be  any  traffic,  to  it 
or  from  it,  and  in  view  of  the  fact  that  the  Georgia  Commis- 
sion changed  the  rates  there  was  no  such  condition  as  you 
have  stated. 

Mr.  Beckett :  If  there  is  no  question  of  discrimination  here, 
would  you  change  the  rate  to  ten  cents — 

Mr.  Craig :  I  certainly  would. 

Mr.  Beckett :  The  evidence  that  you  do  not  do  so  is  the  evi- 
dence that  I  am  after. 

Examiner  Smith :  I  will  see  whether  it  is  possible  for  me  to 
make  that  plain  to  both  the  complainant  and  defendant.  A 
great  many  cases  similar  to  this  are  heard  by  the  Interstate 
Commerce  Commission  and  submitted  to  it  informally  and 
are  brought  to  our  attention  from  time  to  time.  I  understand 
Mr.  Craig  to  testify  that  crossing  the  Savannah  River  and 
the  marshes  and  swamps  on  either  side  they  have  erected  a 
bridge  that  cost  something  like  $475,000,  if  that  is  approxi- 
mately correct.  Let  us  assume  that  from  Charleston  to  a 
station  at  the  South  Carolina  end,  the  east  end  of  that  bridge, 
the  rates  are  made  strictly  on  mileage ;  let  us  assume  that  at 
Monteith,  the  first  station  in  Georgia  west  or  south  of  the 
Savannah  River,  and  from  there  into  Savannah,  the  rates 
were  based  strictly  on  mileage ;  then  let  us  have  a  rate  between 
this  station  in  South  Carolina  at  the  east  end  of  the  bridge 
over  the  Savannah  River,  let  us  have  a  rate  between  that 
station  and  the  first  station  in  Georgia  that  would  be  com- 
pensatory to  the  carrier  for  the  bridge  toll  and  the  mileage 
and  everything  else,  and  the  ten  cents  would  easily  be  ac- 
counted for. 

Mr.  Beckett:  Oh,  undoubtedly. 


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EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 


Examiner  Smith:  Your  proposition  goes  to  this  extent,  as 
I  see  it.  You  ask  Mr.  Craig  if  the  rate  from  Charleston  to 
Monteith  was  built  strictly  on  mileage,  disregarding  for  the 
purpose  of  simplicity  the  station  at  the  north  end  of  the 
bridge.  If  you  build  your  rate  strictly  on  mileage  from 
Charleston  to  Monteith,  why,  when  there  is  no  bridge  south 
of  Monteith  to  Savannah,  why  should  you  put  on  the  extra 
ten  cents  from  Monteith  to  Savannah  ?  Is  that  your  question  ? 

Mr.  Beckett:  Yes,  sir. 

Examiner  Smith:  Is  it  material  in  a  continuous  trip  from 
Charleston  to  Savannah,  or  Hardyville;  is  it  material  where 
that  goes  on,  if  it  is  justified  ? 

Mr.  Beckett:  It  is  the  idea  that  there  is  no  bridge  tax  to 
charge  where  the  bridge  is  between  Charleston  and  Monteith, 
and  when  the  ten  cents  extra  is  charged,  it  is  easily  accounted 
for  by  the  actual  mileage,  if  it  exists ;  but  the  railroad  never 
intended  to  charge  for  that  bridge.  The  distance  has  .been 
decreased  and  the  charge  should  be  decreased  accordingly. 

Examiner  Smith :  Now,  Mr.  Craig,  you  understand  the  com- 
plainant's question  as  put.  Please  answer  it  as  best  you  can? 

Mr.  Craig :  It  becomes  necessary  for  us  to  make  an  explana- 
tion of  it,  and  I  hope  I  can  make  my  answer  meet  the  case. 
We  felt  that  the  rates  in  themselves  were  proper  and  legal 
when  the  Georgia  Commission  fixed  them. 

Examiner  Smith :  Then,  as  I  understand  it,  this  difference 
of  ten  cents  is  not  the  result  of  your  voluntary  action  at  all  ? 

Mr.  Craig:  No,  sir. 

Mr.  Beckett :  In  1898  you  say  that  the  fare  between  Charles- 
ton and  Savannah  was  $4.40  ? 

Mr.  Craig :  Yes,  sir. 


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EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 


Mr.  Beckett :  That  was  a  combination  of  the  four  cent  rate 
existing  in  South  Carolina  and  the  three  cent  rate  existing 
in  Georgia,  wasn't  it? 

Mr.  Craig:  I  could  not  tell  you. 

Mr.  Beckett :  I  will  ask  you  if  you  will  be  kind  enough  to 
figure  it  for  me  and  see  if  that  does  not  correspond  with  it. 

Mr.  Callaway:  I  think  that  was  the  objection  made  in  the 
other  case,  that  it  was  not. 

Examiner  Smith :  To  save  time  and  figuring,  let  us  assume 
that  that  is  the  case. 

Mr.  Beckett :  Assuming  that  that  is  true,  that  the  rate  was 
four  cents  in  South  Carolina  and  it  was  three  cents  in  Georgia, 
wouldn't  that  figure  out  exactly  according  to  a  mileage  rate 
between  Charleston  and  Savannah? 

Mr.  Craig:  It  would  make  it  $4.43. 

Mr.  Beckett :  I  will  ask  you  to  indicate  those  figures  upon 
which  you  base  that  ? 

Mr.  Craig:  Figuring  on  115  miles  less  17  from  here  to  the 
river. 

Mr.  Beckett:  Isn't  it  18-.7  miles  from  here  to  the  river? 

Mr.  Craig :  I  always  understood  it  to  be  about  17  miles.  I 
don't  know  what  it  is. 

Mr.  Beckett:  Based  upon  the  exact  rate  as  it  is  given  in 
this  letter  from  the  General  Superintendent  to  the  Railway 
Commission  of  Georgia,  do  you  figure  it  is  $4.41  ? 

Mr.   Craig:  I  should  say  that  that  is  approximately  correct. 

Mr.  Beckett:  Now,  Mr.  Craig,  I  would  like  you  to  state 

whether  the  rate  in  1900 it  was  three  cents  in  Georgia  and 

South  Carolina,  wasn't  it? 


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EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 


Mr.  Craig :  I  think  it  was  three  and  a  quarter  cents. 

Mr.  Beckett :  The  fare  between  Charleston  and  Savannah 
was  $3.45. 

Mr.  Craig:  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Beckett :  And  it  would  make  it  how  much — 

Examiner  Smith :  That  would  be  three  cents  a  mile. 

Mr.  Craig:  I  was  under  the  impression  it  was  three  aad 
a  quarter  cents. 

Mr.  Beckett:  In  1913  the  fare  is  $2.90  and  is  based  on  a 
distance  of  115  miles. 

Mr.  Craig:  That  may  be  true,  slightly  over  it,  two  and  a 
half  cents  over  it. 

Mr.  Beckett:  Does  that  look  as  though  it  were  a  mileage 
rate? 

Mr.  Craig:  No,  sir.  It  is  approximately  the  distance  of 
115  miles  and  it  is  an  approximate  tariff. 

Mr.  Beckett:  Are  you  prepared  to  state  now,  Mr.  Craig, 
that  that  was  not  intended  to  be  a  mileage  rate  ? 

Mr.  Craig:  No,  sir;  I  am  not  prepared  to  state  that. 

Mr.  Beckett:  You  testified  that  this  reduction  of  ten  cents 
would  affect  the  revenue  of  your  road  one  hundred  and  fifty 
or  two  hundred  thousand  dollars  a  year. 

Mr.  Craig:  Yes,  sir-,  it  would. 

Mr.  Beckett :  Now,  if  that  is  right,  what  would  a  reduction 
of  ninety-five  cents  amount  to  in  the  course  of  a  year  ? 

Mr.  Craig:  I  do  not  know.  Of  course,  it  would  be  many 
times  larger. 


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EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 


Mr.  Beckett:  It  would  be  nine  and  a  half  times  larger, 
wouldn't  it?  That  would  be  $1,900,000  a  year,  wouldn't  it? 

Mr.  Craig:  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Beckett :  And  what  would  a  reduction  of  fifty-five  cents 
on  each  passenger  amount  to? 

Mr.  Craig :  You  can  figure  that. 

Mr.  Beckett :  I  have  $1,100,000.    Is  that  it  ? 

Mr.  Craig:  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Beckett:  The  rate  in  1898  was  $4.40  and  the  rate  in 
1900  was  $3.45,  and  that  was  a  reduction  of  ninety-five  cents. 

Mr.  Craig:  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Beckett :  And  the  rate  of  $2.90,  that  is  another  reduc- 
tion of  fifty-five  cents? 

Mr.  Craig:  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Beckett:  So  the  total  of  these  reductions  represents 
the  loss  to  the  railroad  by  those  reductions  ? 

Mr.  Craig:  Yes,  sir. 

Examiner  Smith:  Did  you  say  "yes,  sir"? 

Mr.  Craig :  I  am  just  leading  him  on. 

Mr.  Beckett :  On  the  basis  of  ten  cents  a  passenger,  amount- 
ing to  $200,000  a  year,  these  total  reductions,  which  have 
been  made  would  make  an  aggregate  of  $3,000,000  a  year. 

Mr.  Craig :  You  are  getting  up  into  fabulous  figures  now. 

Mr.  Beckett :  I  just  want  to  show  how  ridiculous  your 
statement  is.  I  would  like  to  know  whether  you  know  how 
many  passengers  are  hauled  over  that  line  per  annum? 

Examiner  Smith :  There  is  a  report  to  the  Interstate  Com- 
merce Commission  giving  the  exact  number.  Here  is  the 
answer  to  the  general  proposition. 

Mr.  Beckett :  I  know  the  answer  outside  of  my  line  of 
reasoning.  I  want  to  show  how  ridiculous  the  statement  is 
of  that  ten  cents  amounting  to  $200,000  a  year.  That  would 


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EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 


involve  two  million  passengers  a  year. 

Examiner  Smith :  Go  ahead  with  your  testimony. 

Mr.  Beckett :  Now,  Mr.  Craig,  I  may  assume  from  the  figures 
you  gave  there  must  be  forty-five  hundred  to  fifty-eight  hun- 
dred passengers  a  day,  traveling  from  the  points  north  of 
Monteith  to  Savannah  and  points  south  of  Savannah. 

Mr.  Craig :  Then  I  was  mistaken. 

Mr.  Beckett :  What  is  the  traffic  per  diem  over  that  part  of 
the  road  averaging  for  the  year? 

Mr.  Craig :  I  would  say  that  the  through  traffic  we  run  now, 
it  will  be  about  five  hundred  people  a  day  southward,  and 
northward  I  should  say  about  three  hundred  people  a  day. 

Mr.  Beckett :  And  in  the  summer  the  traffic  goes  down  and 
in  the  winter  it  goes  up. 

Mr.  Craig:  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Beckett:  Eight  hundred  would  be  a  fair  average  for 
the  year. 

Mr.  Craig:  Of  through  travel,  yes. 

Mr.  Beckett:  It  would  be  eighty  dollars  a  day,  and  three 
hundred  and  sixty-five  times  that  would  represent  the  year's 
loss. 

Mr.  Craig :  Yes ;  on  the  through  traffic. 

Mr.  Callaway :  Twenty-nine  thousand  dollars  is  a  right  good 
lump  of  money. 

Mr.  Craig:  It  would  mean  considerably  over  twenty-nine 
thousand  dollars. 

Examiner  Smith:  Gentlemen,  is  there  anything  further  in 
this  case? 

Mr.  Beckett :  I  would  like  to  offer  in  evidence  that  map. 

Examiner  Smith:  That  will  be  marked  Lipman  Exhibit  D. 


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EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 


The  map  so  offered  and  identified  was  received  in  evi- 
dence and  thereupon  marked  "Lipman  Exhibit  No.  D. 
received  in  evidence  January  13,  1914,"  and  is  attached 
hereto. 

Examiner  Smith:  Do  you  desire  to  argue  this  case  before 
the  Commission? 

Mr.  Beckett:  It  will  depend  upon  my  client.  If  he  wishes 
me  to  go  to  Washington  and  argue  it,  I  shall  do  so.  I  will 
reserve  the  right  to  argue  it  before  the  Commission. 

Examiner  Smith:  You  can  waive  that  right  at  any  time. 

Mr.  Beckett:  Yes,  sir. 

Examiner  Smith :  Will  you  desire  to  file  a  brief  ? 

Mr.  Beckett :  I  would  like  to  do  so. 

Examiner  Smith:  The  complainant's  opening  brief  must 
be  submitted  by  February  25th. 

Mr.  Callaway:  Give  me  thirty  days  after  that. 

Mr.  Beckett :  I  have  no  objection.  He  may  have  it  for  all  I 
care. 

Examiner  Smith:  At  the  request  of  complainant's  counsel 
then,  defendant's  brief  will  be  due  on  March  20,  and  the 
reply  brief  of  complainant  will  be  due  on  April  10. 

Whereupon  at  eleven  o'clock  and  eight  minutes  in  the 
forenoon  of  January  13,  1914,  the  said  hearing  was  closed. 


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131 


EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 


DEPOSITION  WORK 

One  of  the  most  profitable  branches  of  a  general 
court  reporting  business  is  that  of  deposition  report- 
ing. The  evidence  of  a  resident  of  your  city  may  be 
required  in  a  case  in  another  state,  and  a  commission 
is  issued  by  the  presiding  judge  of  the  trial  court  giv- 
ing authority  to  a  Notary  Public  or  other  authorized 
officer  to  take  the  evidence  and  forward  it  to  the  clerk 
of  the  court  for  use  when  the  case  comes  on  for  trial ;  or, 
because  of  illness  or  other  cause,  it  may  be  impossible 
for  a  witness  to  appear  in  a  local  court,  and  his  testi- 
mony may  be  taken  at  his  home  or  in  an  office  and  will 
be  read  when  the  trial  takes  place. 

In  order  to  be  in  a  position  to  make  the  most  of  this 
work,  the  stenographer  should  become  a  Notary  Public. 
The  method  of  securing  an  appointment  as  such,  is  dif- 
ferent in  the  various  states.  In  Illinois,  a  petition 
signed  by  the  applicant  and  fifty  voters  is  filed  with  the 
Secretary  of  State,  and  a  bond  must  accompany  the 
application.  In  New  York,  the  application  must  be 
signed  by  the  applicant  and  two  reputable  attorneys 
and  is  then  forwarded  to  the  Secretary  of  State.  The 
appointment  is  made  by  the  Senate  and  approved  by 
the  Governor.  Each  state  has  its  own  regulations  and 
you  can  ascertain  the  method  of  securing  an  appoint- 
ment as  a  Notary  by  consulting  the  statutes  in  the  state 
in  which  you  live. 

In  order  to  secure  such  work,  one  should  adopt  the 
same  business  methods  as  obtain  in  any  other  line. 
Those  methods,  of  course,  are  many  and  varied.  For 
instance,  when  I  was  in  business  in  Chicago,  I  ad- 
dressed a  letter  to  all  the  attorneys  in  the  United 

132 


EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 

States  whose  names  appeared  in  the  legal  directories, 
soliciting  their  work  in  Chicago,  and  enclosed  with  the 
letter  a  printed  form  for  a  commission  to  take  deposi- 
tions, with  my  name  appearing  as  the  Notary  Public. 
The  results  were  very  satisfactory,  and  in  this  way  I 
built  up  a  nice  business  in  this  line. 

For  the  purpose  of  illustrating  this  work,  I  give  the 
shorthand  notes  and  transcription  of  a  deposition  re- 
ported by  me  in  Montana,  first  giving  the  phrase  list 
on  the  same  plan  as  has  been  shown  in  the  Interstate 
Commerce  Commission  hearing.  The  practise  sugges- 
tions are  fully  given  and  should  be  followed  implicitly, 
if  you  are  to  receive  the  full  benefit  from  this  work. 

The  form  of  transcribing  the  first  page  of  the  deposi- 
tion must  be  supplied  by  the  reporter.  Enough  data 
must  be  shown  in  the  note  book  upon  which  to  base  the 
form. 

For  instance,  in  this  case  the  title  and  venue  of  the 
case  is  shown.  The  title  is  "Robert  "W.  Bride,  Com- 
plainant, vs.  Charles  L.  Keeley,  Defendant.'*  The 
venue  is  "In  the  District  Court  of  the  Tenth  Judicial 
District  of  the  State  of  Montana  in  and  for  the  County 
of  Meagher."  Then,  the  date  must  be  shown,  and  the 
hour  of  the  taking  of  the  deposition.  If  the  deposi- 
tion is  taken  before  a  Notary  Public  other  than  the 
stenographer,  that  fact  must  appear.  In  this  case  the 
deposition  was  taken  before  me. 

The  introduction  should  show  that  the  witness  is  of 
lawful  age,  in  whose  behalf  his  testimony  will  be  used, 
whether  the  deposition  is  taken  pursuant  to  a  commis- 
sion issued  by  a  competent  Court,  or  pursuant  to  stipu- 
lation. In  this  case  the  deposition  was  taken  pursuant 
to  a  stipulation  entered  into  between  the  attorneys  of 
the  various  parties.  This  stipulation  must  be  attached 

133 


EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 

to  the  deposition,  and  were  the  deposition  taken  pur- 
suant to  a  commission  that  fact  must  be  shown  and  the 
commission  attached. 

I  do  not  begin  the  testimony  on  the  first  page,  reserv- 
ing that  for  the  title  and  venue  and  the  data  above  out- 
lined. If,  during  the  proceedings,  I  adopt  a  temporary 
expedient  to  represent  a  frequently  recurring  phrase, 
I  turn  back  to  the  first  page  and  make  a  note  of  it. 

After  the  deposition  is  transcribed,  in  many  cases  it 
must  be  submitted  to  the  witness  and  signed  by  him 
and  sworn  to  before  the  Notary  Public  who  took  the 
deposition.  The  signature  of  the  witness,  however,  is 
frequently  waived,  as  was  done  in  this  particular 
instance. 

At  the  conclusion  of  the  deposition  the  Notary  must 
certify  to  its  correctness,  the  form  of  the  certificate 
varying  in  the  various  states.  Usually  the  commission 
itself  gives  the  form  demanded  by  the  statutes  of  the 
state  in  which  the  case  is  pending.  If  not,  the  stenog- 
rapher must  ascertain  the  form  of  the  certificate,  and  to 
do  so  he  should  consult  the  statutes  of  the  state  in 
which  the  court  is  located  which  issues  the  commission. 

I  give  a  certificate  which  I  used  in  Montana,  and 
which  covers  about  every  feature  necessary  in  the 
various  states.  First,  I  show  that  I  am  a  Notary 
Public  duly  qualified  by  a  commission  issued  by  the 
Secretary  of  State;  that  my  commission  is  in  force  I 
give  the  date  of  its  expiration;  that  I  am  not  related 
to  any  of  the  parties  or  the  attorneys  appearing  on  be- 
half of  any  of  the  parties ;  that  the  witness  was  duly 
sworn  by  me  to  tell  the  truth,  the  whole  truth  and  noth- 
ing but  the  truth;  that  the  witness  was  of  lawful  age; 
that  the  questions  were  propounded  to  him  orally  by 
the  attorneys  for  the  parties,  as  shown  in  the  deposi- 

134 


EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 

tion,  and  his  answers  were  given  by  him  orally;  that 
the  questions  and  answers  so  propounded  were  taken 
by  me  in  shorthand  and  afterwards  transcribed,  and 
that  the  deposition  contains  a  true  transcript  of  the 
shorthand  notes  of  the  questions  and  answers  and  the 
entire  proceedings  had  before  me ;  that  during  the  pro- 
ceedings it  was  stipulated  by  and  between  the  parties, 
through  their  respective  attorneys,  that  the  signature 
of  the  witness  should  be  waived  and  it  was  so  waived. 

Of  course,  copies  of  the  deposition  may  be  made  for 
the  various  parties,  but  the  original  deposition  must 
not  be  delivered  to  either  of  the  attorneys.  It  may  be 
necessary  to  secure  a  certificate  of  the  Secretary  of 
State  or  the  proper  officer  to  the  effect  that  on  the  day  of 
the  taking  of  the  deposition  the  one  before  whom  it  was 
taken  was  a  duly  authorized  Notary  Public,  and  attach 
that  certificate  to  the  certificate  of  the  Notary. 

The  deposition  is  then  neatly  bound  and  placed  in  a 
large  envelope  and  directed  to  the  Clerk  of  the  Court 
issuing  the  commission  or  before  which  the  case  is  pend- 
ing. On  the  outside  of  the  envelope,  aside  from  the 
address  to  the  Clerk  of  the  Court,  must  appear  the  title 
and  venue  of  the  case,  and  the  words  "deposition  of 
Lawrence  Bates  (or  whoever  the  party  may  be  making 
the  deposition)  taken  before  Robert  F.  Rose  (or  the 
name  of  the  Notary)  to  be  used  on  the  trial  of  said 
case."  This  is  then  mailed  to  the  Clerk  of  the  Court 
and  personally  1  always  register  the  letter  and  ask  for 
a  receipt. 

This  deposition  is  then  tiled  with  the  papers  in  the 
case  and  can  not  be  opened  by  either  party  without  an 
order  of  the  Court. 

The  Notary  has  no  authority  to  rule  on  the  admissi- 
bility  of  questions  asked  the  witness  or  answers  given 


EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 

by  him.  Every  objection  must  be  fully  shown  in  the 
record.  The  deposition  is  read  on  the  trial  of  the  case, 
and  when  a  question  is  read  to  which  objection  is  made, 
the  court  determines  whether  the  answer  appearing  in 
the  deposition  should  be  allowed  to  go  into  the  record. 
The  stenographer  in  court  must  take  these  depositions 
as  they  are  read,,  in  order  that  he  may  get  a  record  of 
the  rulings  of  the  court  as  to  the  admissibility  of  ques- 
tions and  answers  in  the  deposition. 


EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 
PHRASE  LISTS 

PAGE  158 

The  following  phrases  should  be  written  from  dicta- 
tion at  least  fifty  times  at  a  rate  of  speed  at  which  you 
can  make  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  outlines : 

Please-state-your-name,  and-your-occupation,  and-resi- 
dence,  I-am-in-the,  I-have-no,  what-do-you,  consider-your,  at- 
one-place,  and-partly,  "White-Sniphur-Sprmgs,  St.-Paul,  I- 
\vill-ask-you-if-you-will,  please-state-the-circumstances,  un- 
der-which-you,  in-any-way,  with-the,  Sweet-Grass,  and- 
Meagher,  of-the,  through-my,  I-had,  of -it,  was-told,  had-some, 
around-there,  and-that,  in-all-probability,  he-could,  put-me, 
to-some,  and-I-went,  and-I-met,  Mr.-Keeley,  and-he-men- 
tioned,  several-properties,  to-me,  and-he-wanted-me,  to-see- 
some,  of-them,  as-near-as-I-can-remember,  I-saw-some,  and- 
others,  I-did-not,  did-you,  in-regard,  to-the-Gleason,  Mr.- 
Bride. 

After  concluding  the  above  outlined  work,  have  the 
matter  contained  on  page  158  dictated  to  you  fifty 
times,  limiting  the  speed  to  that  at  which  you  can 
execute  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  notes. 

PAGE  160 

The  following  phrases  should  be  written  from  dicta- 
tion at  least  fifty  times  at  a  rate  of  speed  at  which  you 
can  make  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  outlines : 

T-never-met,  Mr.  -Bride,  T-will-get-you-to-state-the,  you- 
had,  in-regard-to-tliosc,  as-near-as-I-can-recall,  I-had-my, 
wit  h-my- father,  aiid-then,  Mr.-Keeley,  do-you-remember- 
when,  it-was,  you-had-your,  T-do-not-reraember,  I-would-like- 
for-you,  to-state,  with-referenoe-to-the-time,  that-you,  bought- 
1he,  about-how-long,  prior-to-that.  was-it.  first-talked,  to-the- 
best-of-my-recollection,  it-was,  eighteen,  nineteen-eight,  some- 
thing-like-that, and-you-had-not.  talked-with-him,  regarding- 

137 


EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 

the,  prior-to-that-time,  as-well-as-I-can-remember,  1-had-not, 
I-think-that-he,  an-option,  and-said,  something-about-it,  did- 
iiot,  I-will-ask-you-to-state,  in-your-own-way,  what-the,  had- 
with,  you-see,  and-I-did-not,  a-diary,  as-near-as-I-can-remem- 
ber,  in-June,  did-he,  write-yon,  about-it,  no-sir,  do-you-remem- 
ber-the,  you-had-with-him,  in-regard-to-this,  he-said,  he-had, 
an-option,  I-said,  it-was-not,  because-it-only. 

After  concluding  the  above  outlined  work,  have  the 
matter  contained  on  page  160  dictated  to  you  fifty 
times,  limiting  the  speed  to  that  at  which  you  can 
execute  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  notes. 

PAGE  162 

The  following  phrases  should  be  written  from  dicta- 
tion at  least  fifty  times  at  a  rate  of  speed  at  which  you 
can  make  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  outlines : 

And-the,  it-must-have,  more-than,  at-that-time,  not-when, 
I-was,  .on-the,  he-wanted-me,  to-go,  and-see-the,  and-you,  that- 
is-objected,  leading-and-suggestive,  I-did-not,  to-pay,  a-com- 
mission,  on-a,  of-that,  when-did-you-next,  a-conversation, 
with-him,  about-it,  about-that-time,  and-see-it,  and'he,  for- 
the,  was-this,  in-the-morning,  in-the-afternoon,  I-do-not-know, 
I-will-get-you-to-state,  where-it-was,  I-think-it-was,  you-went- 
out,  on-that-day,  was-it-the,  go-with-him,  a-rig,  and-sent, 
when-did-you-come,  I-spent,  and-came,  back-the,  what-did- 
you-think,  incompetent-irrelevant-and-immaterial. 

After  concluding  the  above  outlined  work,  have  the 
matter  contained  on  page  162  dictated  to  you  fifty 
times,  limiting  the  speed  to  that  at  which  you  can 
execute  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  notes. 

PAGE  104 

The  following  phrases  should  be  written  from  dicta- 
tion at  least  fifty  times  at  a  rate  of  speed  at  which  you 
can  make  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  outlines: 

133 


EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 

A-good,  to-be-worth,  more-than,  five-and-a-half,  an-acre, 
that-is-objected,  incompetent-irrelevant-and-iraraaterial,  and- 
for-the,  further-reason,  that-it-has-no,  on-the,  set-forth,  in- 
the,  in-this,  if-it-were,  how-many-acres,  were-there,  in-that, 
eight-thousand,  eight-hundred,  twenty-six,  when-you-got, 
what-did-you,  I-saw,  did-you-try,  to-get,  a-buyer,  I-object-to- 
that,  leading-and-suggestive,  did-you-say,  that-you-would- 
try,  I-make-the,  I-do-not-think,  I-told,  anything-like-that,  do- 
you-recall,  what-you-did-say,  as-near-as-I-can-remeraber,  I- 
told-him,  that-the,  was-not,  and-that,  I-had,  a-talk-with,  and- 
Gleason,  he-would,  give-me,  another-option,  said-that-he- 
would,  give-you,  when-that-one. 

After  concluding  the  above  outlined  work,  have  the 
matter  contained  on  page  164  dictated  to  you  fifty 
times,  limiting  the  speed  to  that  at  which  you  can 
execute  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  notes. 

PAGE  166 

The  following  phrases  should  be  written  from  dicta- 
tion at  least  fifty  times  at  a  rate  of  speed  at  which  you 
can  make  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  outlines: 

I-think-so,  or-if,  I-got-that-one,  out-of-the-way,  he-would, 
give-me,  another-option,  state-whether-or-not,  you-had,  to-get, 
this-paper,  when-it,  yes-sir,  I-would-like-to-know-the,  of-the, 
or-the,  of-it,  when-Gleason,  came-there,  was-that-the,  follow- 
in  g-y  our,  as-near-as-I-can-remember,  it-was,  it-must-have- 
been-the,  in-other-words,  three-or-four,  you-had-the,  about- 
the,  I-would-like-to-know,  happened-the,  when-he,  I-think, 
some-money,  for-the,  how-much,  J-have,  and-I-told-him,  I- 
would,  give-him,  to-pay,  beeause-it-wasn't,  to-me,  Mr.-Gleason, 
T-will-ask-yon-to-state-wlietlier-or-not,  St. -Paul,  he-was-not, 
a-buyer,  iTi-no-sense,  he-was,  a-promotcr. 

After  concluding  the  above  outlined  work,  have  the 
matter  contained  on  page  166  dictated  to  you  fifty 
times,  limiting  the  speed  to  that  at  which  you  can 
execute  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  notes. 

330 


EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 

PAGE  168 

The  following  phrases  should  be  written  from  dicta- 
tion at  least  fifty  times  at  a  rate  of  speed  at  which  you 
can  make  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  outlines : 

"Why-did-you,  show-him,  I-wanted,  to-have-him,  see-it,  if- 
he-was,  to-sell,  in-the,  are-you-sure,  eame-there,  after-you, 
yes-sir,  he-was,  with-us,  I-would-like-for-you,  to-give-me-the, 
you-had,  for-the,  as-near-as-I-can-say,  a-large,  an-unreason- 
able,  about-how-much,  did-he,  I-do-not-remember,  how-much, 
twenty-five-or-fifty,  an-acre,  state-whether-or-not,  you-argued, 
that-with-him,  I-did-not,  I-told-him,  I-would-not-pay-it.  be- 
cause-it-was,  to-buy,  paying-a,  and-this,  this-discussion,  as- 
to- whether,  he-would,  to-you,  a-commission,  I-do-not-know- 
whether-or-not,  it-was,  an-hour,  to-refresh-your-recollection, 
didn't-he,  to-insist,  I-would-give-him,  I-will-ask-if-he,  did- 
not-say,  to-get,  if-the,  no-sir,  after-the,  and-Mr.-Gleason.  an- 
option,  with-me,  at-a-later,  I-will-ask-if-you-did-not-say,  at- 
that-time,  that-you-would,  what-was,  I-did-not. 

After  concluding  the  above  outlined  work,  have  the 
matter  contained  on  page  168  dictated  to  you  fifty 
times,  limiting  the  speed  to  that  at  which  you  can 
execute  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  notes. 

PAGE  170 

The  following  phrases  should  be  written  from  dicta- 
tion at  least  fifty  times  at  a  rate  of  speed  at  which  you 
can  make  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  outlines : 

^Vhat-did-you-say,  if-you-come,  on-this,  all-right,  and- 
make-some,  you-will-remember,  won't-you,  something-like- 
that,  and-you,  no-sir,  I-did-not-bind,  at-all,  I-said,  a-laughing, 
that-we-would,  after-him,  of-tliat,  isn't-it-a-fact.  that-you- 
tokl-me,  that-the,  like-this.  to-you.  if-this,  you-say-this,  what- 
do-you,  out-of-this,  and-didn't-he-say,  I-do-not-think-so,  any- 
thing-like-that,  I-said.  in-Butte.  I-have-said,  to-my-best-recol- 
loetion,  you-mentioned-the.  over-there,  I-could-not,  ]\Ir.- 

140 


EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 

Winston,  for-the-reasoii,  I-am-not-absolutely,  I-did-say,  I- 
was-not,  at-that-time,  I-told-you,  as-it-does-not,  to-me,  I-will- 
ask-you,  dining-room,  you-used-the,  what-is,  I-said-that,  or- 
not,  I-did-say-anything,  it-was,  I-saw,  to-give-him,  I-did-not- 
have,  I-never. 

After  concluding  the  above  outlined  work,  have  the 
matter  contained  on  page  170  dictated  to  you  fifty 
times,  limiting  the  speed  to  that  at  which  you  can 
execute  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  notes. 

PAGE  172 

The  following  phrases  should  be  written  from  dicta- 
tion at  least  fifty  times  at  a  rate  of  speed  at  which  you 
can  make  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  outlines : 

I-was-bound,  to-give-him,  are-you-willing-to-swear,  that- 
you,  did-not-say,  to-me,  when-you-asked-him,  what-do-you, 
to-get,  of-it,  that-is-objected,  incompetent-irrelevant-and-im- 
material,  I-will-refer,  to-the,  to-make-it,  let-me,  in-my,  and- 
further,  has-no-bearing,  of-the,  set-forth,  in-the,  in-this-case, 
it-was,  a-matter,  fifteen-or-sixteen,  days-ago,  it-makes,.  I-re- 
member-the-time,  would-you -be- will  ing-to-swear,  that-you- 
did-not-say,  I-said,  a-whole,  to-you,  Mr.-Winston,  a-witness, 
to-give-you-the,  and-unbiased,  you-did-not-understand,  if-you, 
got-the-impression,  I-said,  I-would-take-care-of-him,  some- 
thing-like-that, I-had,  I-would-be-able-to,  swing-the,  that- 
Nelson. 

After  concluding  the  above  outlined  work,  have  the 
matter  contained  on  page  172  dictated  to  you  fifty 
times,  limiting  the  speed  to  that  at  which  you  can 
execute  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  notes. 

PAGE  174 

The  following  phrases  should  be  written  from  dicta- 
tion at  least  fifty  times  at  a  rate  of  speed  at  which  you 
can  make  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  outlines: 

141 


EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 

And-our,  would-be-able-to,  because-such,  a-transaction,  a- 
whole,  of-money,  you-will-testify,  that-you,  to-him,  you-would, 
take-care-of-him,  if-the,  that-is-objected,  I-said,  I-would,  re- 
member-him,  I-laughed,  at-the-time,  I-did-not-take-it,  at-all, 
I-did-not-feel,  I-was-under,  any-obligations,  as-near-as-I-can- 
recollect,  idea-was,  to-keep,  on-the,  side-of,  and-because,  and- 
then,  I-thought,  I-could-trust,  and-he,  put-me,  on-to,  and-I- 
wanted,  to-be,  with-him,  I-would-like-to-know-whether-or-not, 
you-know-his,  in-the-community,  in-which-he,  for-truth,  and- 
veracity,  that-is-objected,  incompetent-irrelevant-and<-immate- 
rial,  and-not-touching,  set-forth,  in-this,  and-not,  do-you- 
know-it,  and-also,  upon-the,  that-the,  for-the-reception,  of- 
such,  has-not-been,  that-has-no,  upon-this,  I-ask-you-to-state- 
whether-or-not,  you-know,  what-his,  reputation-is,  for-truth- 
and-veracity. 

After  concluding  the  above  outlined  work,  have  the 
matter  contained  on  page  174  dictated  to  you  fifty 
times,  limiting  the  speed  to  that  at  which  you  can 
execute  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  notes. 


PAGE  176 

The  following  phrases  should  be  written  from  dicta- 
tion at  least  fifty  times  at  a  rate  of  speed  at  which  you 
can  make  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  outlines : 

I-object-to-that,  on-the,  same-grounds,  do-you-mean,  at-that- 
time,  I-mean-now,  please-note-the,  I-know,  Mr.  -Keeley,  and-I, 
a-great-deal,  of-what,  answer-the-question,  state-whether-or- 
not,  you-know,  what-his,  reputation-is,  I-do-not,  what-you, 
about-it,  do-vou-know-whether-his,  for-truth-and-veracity,  in- 
the-comniunity,  in-which-he,  do-you-know,  what-it-is,  no-sir, 
T-do-not,  I-never,  T-only-know,  you-liave,  I-have,  and-bad,  I- 
did,  in-a-way,  T-did-not.  and-it.  bothcr-mo,  in-all,  T-had,  to-do, 
isn't-it-a-fact,  that-you-know,  I-object-to-that,  incompetent- 
irrelevant-and-iramaterial,  and-as-not,  set-forth,  and-becausc- 
the,  for-the-reception,  have-not-been,  and-because-it,  calls-for- 

142 


EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 

a-coiiclusion-of-the-witness,      and-is,      leading-and-suggestive, 
and-he-has,  answered-the,  that-he,  does-not-know. 

After  concluding  the  above  outlined  work,  have  the 
matter  contained  on  page  176  dictated  to  you  fifty 
times,  limiting  the  speed  to  that  at  which  you  can 
execute  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  notes. 

PAGE  178 

The  following  phrases  should  be  written  from  dicta- 
tion at  least  fifty  times  at  a  rate  of  speed  at  which  you 
can  make  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  outlines : 

Answer-the-question,  what-is-the-question,  last-question- 
read,  I-don't-know,  how-to,  answer-that,  what-the,  Mr.  -Keeley, 
I-have,  both-sides,  of-it,  reputation-is,  that-is,  as-near-as-I- 
can-answer-that,  about-this,  about-the,  that-you,  prior-to-the- 
time-that-the,  as-to-your,  remembering-him,  if-the,  will-you- 
state-again,  pardon-the,  as-near-as-you-can-remember,  and- 
what-the,  that-is-objected,  being-a,  and-also,  it-was-something- 
like-this,  we- were,  and-made,  some-money,  out-of-the,  we- 
would,  take-care-of-him,  something-like-that,  prior-to-that- 
time,  sold-you,  any-other-option,  no-sir,  that-was-the,  I-ever- 
had-with-him,  are-you-willing-to-testify,  called-your-attention, 
had-gone,  and-the,  due-him,  after-that,  we-had,  a-letter,  from- 
him,  he-had-seen. 

After  concluding  the  above  outlined  work,  have  the 
matter  contained  on  page  178  dictated  to  you  fifty 
times,  limiting  the  speed  to  that  at  which  you  can 
execute  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  notes. 

PAGE  180 

The  following  phrases  should  be  written  from  dicta- 
tion at  least  fifty  times  at  a  rate  of  speed  at  which  you 
can  make  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  outlines: 

Aiid-lic-askcd-inc,  we-were-not,  to-remember-him,  and- 
\vant <•<!,  to-know,  if-llicrc-was.  tn-him.  we-had,  transferred- 

143 


EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 

the,  to-the,  I-said,  I-would-see-my,  iu-St.-Paul,  and-theu-he,  a- 
reininder,  I-had-not-taken.  it-up,  how-did-he-know,  had-gone, 
it-was-known,  aiid-it-was,  a-matter,  of-record,  in-the,  he-said, 
since-the,  has-gone,  aren't-you,  to-remember-me,  that-is-ob- 
jected,  leading-and-suggestive,  and-as,  incompetent-irrelevant- 
and-immaterial,  something-like-that,  he-was,  of-course,  to-the- 
Gleason,  and-then-he,  had-been,  to-me,  in-other-things,  and- 
had,  put-me,  three-or-four,  for-sale,  but-the,  I-did-not-feel,  we- 
were,  to-give-him,  and-told-him,  I-did-not-think,  we-would- 
have,  I-would-see-the,  and-would-see,  I-will-ask-you-if-it-is-not- 
a-fact,  that-he-was,  asking-you,  about-that. 

After  concluding  the  above  outlined  work,  have  the 
matter  contained  on  page  180  dictated  to  you  fifty 
times,  limiting  the  speed  to  that  at  which  you  can 
execute  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  notes. 

PAGE  182 

The  following  phrases  should  be  written  from  dicta- 
tion at  least  fifty  times  at  a  rate  of  speed  at  which  you 
can  make  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  outlines : 

In-a-way,  he-wanted,  to-know,  if-we-would,  remember-him, 
if -there-was,  to-him,  it- was,  all-right,  and-if-there-was-not,  to- 
know-it,  I-will-ask-you-to-state-whether-or-not-he,  used-the, 
has-gone,  I-do-not-know-whether-or-not-he,  those-words,  you- 
say,  this-is,  to-the- Gleason,  and-entirely,  at-that,  it-referred,  to- 
that,  what-you-meant,  what-you-were-talking,  he-has-answered- 
that,  he-said-that,  several-other,  that-is,  a-repetition,  and-I,  to- 
it,  I-do-not-think-it,  in-particular,  inasmuch-as-he,  had-been, 
to-us,  in-other-ways,  I-said-that,  we-would,  he-was,  that-is- 
what-you,  that-is-objected,  that-it.  I-suppose,  I-do-iiot-know, 
what-he,  I-would-not-have,  paid-him,  I-don't,  had-not,  and- 
helped-us,  after-we-had-made,  if -he,  let-me. 

After  concluding  the  above  outlined  work,  have  the 
matter  contained  on  page  182  dictated  to  you  fifty 
times,  limiting  the  speed  to  that  at  which  you  can 
execute  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  notes. 

144 


EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 

PAGE  184 

The  following  phrases  should  be  written  from  dicta- 
tion at  least  fifty  times  at  a  rate  of  speed  at  which  you 
can  make  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  outlines : 

In-view,  of-all-those,  I-presume,  he-was,  to-something,  on- 
that-Gleason,  and-the-others,  of-course,  was-before-the,  I-was- 
not,  with-the,  when-the,  I-had,  from-the,  if-you-had,  it-must- 
have-been,  not-necessarily,  associated-with-the,  on-the,  had- 
not-been,  any-business,  that-was-taken,  in-the-matter,  I-had, 
to-do,  with-it,  there-was,  I-understand-it,  upon-which,  Mr.- 
Keeley,  an-option,  that-he-turned,  to-you,  sold-the,  some-land, 
an-out,  and-out,  I-do-not-know-anything-about-that,  it-was,  to- 
the-best-of-my-knowledge,  a-letter,  on-account,  that-is-objected, 
incompetent-irrelevant-and-immaterial,  letter-is-the,  was-as, 
St.-Paul,  dear-sir,  when-you-were,  told-me. 

After  concluding  the  above  outlined  work,  have  the 
matter  contained  on  page  184  dictated  to  you  fifty 
times,  limiting  the  speed  to  that  at  which  you  can 
execute  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  notes. 

PAGE  186 

The  following  phrases  should  be  written  from  dicta- 
tion at  least  fifty  times  at  a  rate  of  speed  at  which  you 
can  make  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  outlines : 

You-would,  see-your,  iii-regard,  to-the,  on-the,  due-me,  if- 
there-is-any thing1,  I-wish,  have-them,  a-check,  if-there-is-not, 
yours-truly,  he-says,  do-you-know,  he-refers,  in-that,  letter-is- 
the,  in-itself,  and-I,  object-to-that,  he-referred,  to-the-Gleason, 
of-course,  I-would-like-to-know,  why-he,  used-the,  do-you- 
know-that,  I-do-not-know,  he-is,  to-use,  any-kind,  of-a,  I-sup- 
pose-it-was,  what-he,  due-him,  it-was,  a-gift,  a-present,  a-de- 
niand,  and-it-was-when-you,  roeeivod-that.  that-you-turned, 
and-said,  here-is,  a-letter,  something-like-that,  I-suppose,  he- 
wants,  eight-hundred,  and-we-will.  give-liim,  five-hundred, 
and-see,  if-that-won 't,  quiet-him,  that-is-objected,  incompe- 

145 


EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 

teiit-irrelevant-and-immaterial,  and-as,  being-a,  out-of-the, 
Mr.-Keeley,  aud-as-not-being,  set-forth,  in-this,  and-also-as,  a- 
leading-and-suggestive. 

After  concluding  the  above  outlined  work,  have  the 
matter  contained  on  page  186  dictated  to  you  fifty 
times,  limiting  the  speed  to  that  at  which  you  can 
execute  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  notes. 

PAGE  188 

The  following  phrases  should  be  written  from  dicta- 
tion at  least  fifty  times  at  a  rate  of  speed  at  which  you 
can  make  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  outlines : 

Tell-me,  what-did-you-say,  to-your,  regarding-the,  five- 
hundred,  that-is-objected,  incompetent-irrelevant-and-imma- 
terial,  it-is,  that-Mr.-Keeley,  and-the,  was-had,  in-his,  it-was- 
not,  in-the-first-place,  it-was,  who-is,  a-partner,  of-mine,  and- 
is,  secretary-treasurer,  to-my-best-recollection,  I-received-this, 
and-took-it,  to-Mr.,  here-is,  a-letter,  I-had,  talked-with-him, 
about-the-matter,  and-we,  inasmuch-as,  with-us,  and-had,  so- 
many,  for-us,  to-do-something,  for-him,  in-some-sort-of-way, 
and-Taylor,  asked-me,  I-thought-was,  I-said,  I-suppose,  six- 
hundred,  that-is,  we-do-not-have,  to-pay-him,  and-we,  need- 
the-money,  as-much-as,  he-does,  and-we-finally,  to-send-him, 
five-hundred,  we-did,  about-how-long-was-that,  after-this,  was- 
received,  by-you,  T-do-not-know-the,  of-the,  I-imagine,  it-was, 
within-a-few-days,  as-near-as-I-ean-recollect,  we-received-it, 
twenty-four,  nineteen-nine,  have-you,  a-copy-of-the,  to-him, 
yes-sir,  into-the. 

After  concluding  the  above  outlined  work,  have  the 
matter  contained  on  page  188  dictated  to  you  fifty 
times,  limiting  the  speed  to  that  at  which  you  can 
execute  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  notes. 

PAGE  190 

The  following  phrases  should  be  written  from  dicta- 

146 


EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 

tion  at  least  fifty  times  at  a  rate  of  speed  at  which  you 
can  make  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  outlines : 

That-is-objected,  incompetent-irrelevant-and-immaterial, 
and-as-not-having,  any-bearing,  of-the-matters,  set-forth,  in- 
the,  in-this,  and-as-not-being-the,  and-consequently,  not-the, 
and-as,  letter-is,  twenty-four,  nineteen-nine,  dear-sir,  your- 
letter,  of -recent-date,  to-Mr.,  has-been,  to-us,  and-we-enclose, 
five-hundred,  we-trust,  will-be-satisfactory,  we-hope,  we-have- 
turned,  of-our,  into-money,  to-be-able-to,  do-some,  in-your- 
country,  which-will-be-of,  and-beg,  to-remain,  yours-truly,  I- 
believe,  Mr.-Taylor,  I-do-not-think,  I-was,  with-the,  at-that- 
time,  I-am-pretty,  of-it,  do-you-know,  that-check,  was-made,  as- 
the,  check-is-the,  it-was-made,  on-the,  first-national-bank,  that- 
is-my-recollection,  yes-sir,  St.-Paul,  do-you-know-whether,  any- 
other-checks,  between-your,  and-Charles. 

After  concluding  the  above  outlined  work,  have  the 
matter  contained  on  page  190  dictated  to  you  fifty 
times,  limiting  the  speed  to  that  at  which  you  can 
execute  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  notes. 

PAGE  192 

The  following  phrases  should  be  written  from  dicta- 
tion at  least  fifty  times  at  a  rate  of  speed  at  which  you 
can  make  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  outlines : 

You-do-not-know,  were-there,  any-others,  I-know-that-there- 
were,  no-others,  that-had,  to-do,  with-this-matter,  and-there- 
were,  no-other-checks,  between-you,  and-Mr.-Keeley,  no-sir, 
and-no-other.  other-than-the,  fifty,  I-would-like-to-know- 
\vlietlier-tlien>-wen',  any-other-checks,  between-your,  and- 
Cliarles,  fivc-liundred.  and-the.  for-the,  from-him,  to-which- 
you-referred,  a-inoiuent.  I-eaimot-tell-whether-that-was,  by- 
olieck,  I -had,  to-do,  witli-it,  I-have-had-no,  with-the,  since-that- 
liinc,  al-lhe-linie,  tliat-yon-loft-llie,  prior-to-that-time,  there- 
liad-been,  one-check,  between-lliem,  and-that-was-this,  tell-you, 
at-llial-titne.  that-]\Ir.-]?ride,  a-pai'tner,  of-liis,  did-he,  to-it, 
nt-all.  after-the,  was-closed,  he-said-something,  about-a,  claim- 

147 


EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 

ing-he,  an-interest,  in-it,  soinethiiig-Kke-that,  and-elosed,  and- 
I-did-not-pay,  any-attention,  to-him,  and-knew,  about-it,  and- 
didn't. 

After  concluding  the  above  outlined  work,  have  the 
matter  contained  on  page  192  dictated  to  you  fifty 
times,  limiting  the  speed  to  that  at  which  you  can 
execute  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  notes. 

PAGE  194 

The  following  phrases  should  be  written  from  dicta- 
tion at  least  fifty  times  at  a  rate  of  speed  at  which  you 
can  make  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  outlines : 

"What-is-that,  at-this-time,  that-is-objected,  incompetent-ir- 
relevant-and-immaterial,  and-as,  calling-for-a-conclusion-of- 
the-witness,  and-for-the,  further-reason,  that-it-has-no,  on-any, 
of-the,  set-forth,  in-the,  in-this,  court.-of,  Meagher-County,  be- 
tween-Mr.-Bride,  and-Mr.  Keeley,  and-further,  that-it-relates, 
to-a,  it-will,  property-is,  thirteen-or-fourteen,  an-acre,  sell-for- 
that,  no-sir,  if-it-were,  I-would,  twelve,  and-sell,  I-were,  \o- 
buy-it,  ten,  you-think-it,  could-be,  you-cannot,  sell-anything, 
nowadays,  and-your-company,  Sweet-Grass,  yes-sir,  when-was- 
that,  nineteen-eight,  at-what,  was-it,  to-the,  Sweet-Grass-Land. 

After  concluding  the  above  outlined  work,  have  the 
matter  contained  on  page  194  dictated  to  you  fifty 
times,  limiting  the  speed  to  that  at  which  you  can 
execute  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  notes. 

PAGE  196 

The  following  phrases  should  be  written  from  dicta- 
tion at  least  fifty  times  at  a  rate  of  speed  at  which  you 
can  make  noat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  outlines: 

Incompetent-  irrelevant-  and-  immaterial,  I-think-  it-  was, 
seven-and-a-half,  an-acre,  it-was,  less-than-that,  we-had-the, 
organizing-the,  and-doing,  all-of-the,  and-making-the,  when- 
yoti-say,  what-have-you-to-say,  as-to-the,  exact-price,  I-don't- 

148 


EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 

know,  I-have-not-the,  I-do-not-know,  what-the,  told-rne,  I-told- 
you-the,  into-the,  I-would-like-to-know-whether-or-not,  Sweet- 
Grass-Land,  still-in,  that-is-objected,  to-the-best-of-my-knowl- 
edge,  it-is,  who-was-the,  of-that,  at-that-time,  I-don 't-remem- 
ber,  did-you-have,  aiiy-conversation,  with-any,  of-the,  regard- 
ing-the,  of-it.  I-would-like-to-know,  yon-talked- with. 

After  concluding  the  above  outlined  work,  have  the 
matter  contained  on  page  196  dictated  to  you  fifty 
times,  limiting  the  speed  to  that  at  which  you  can 
execute  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  notes. 

PAGE  198 

The  following  phrases  should  be  written  from  dicta- 
tion at  least  fifty  times  at  a  rate  of  speed  at  which  you 
can  make  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  outlines : 

I-don 't-remember,  I-probably,  a-good-many,  of-them,  I- 
talked-with,  and-Mr. -Nelson,  is-that,  a-Montana,  I-do-not-know, 
I-would-like-to-know,  if-you-had,  to-do,  with-the,  of-the,  have- 
you,  any-  other-  correspondence,  connected-with-the,  of-  that, 
with-you,  I-don 't-know,  I-have,  at-all,  any-books,  did-you- 
transfer,  your-option,  to-the,  in-writing,  I-was,  a-partner,  in- 
the,  and-I,  into-them,  I-did,  all-my,  Mr.-Gleason,  were-you,  a- 
stockholder,  Sweet-Grass-Land,  how-much,  did-you-have,  to- 
which,  we-object,  incompetent-irrelevant-and-immaterial,  rec- 
ord-is-the,  seventeen-hundred. 

After  concluding  the  above  outlined  work,  have  the 
matter  contained  on  page  198  dictated  to  you  fifty 
times,  limiting  the  speed  to  that  at  which  you  can 
execute  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  notes. 

PAGE  200 

The  following  phrases  should  be  written  from  dicta- 
tion at  least  fifty  times  at  a  rate  of  speed  at  which  you 
can  make  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  outlines: 

Your-company,  an-acre,  on-this,  no-sir,  how-much,  did-you- 

349 


EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 

make,  incompetent-irrelevant-and-immaterial,  in-the,  twelve- 
thousand- six- hundred,  how- do- you,  each- of- us,  seventeen- 
liundred,  we- had,  out- of- this,  and- probably,  did- not,  more- 
than,  ten-thousand,  at-the,  does-the,  Sweet-Grass-Land,  own- 
that,  I-don 't-know,  did-the,  sell-that,  that-is-objected,  did-you, 
sell-your,  yes-sir. 

After  concluding  the  above  outlined  work,  have  the 
matter  contained  on  page  200  dictated  to  you  fifty 
times,  limiting  the  speed  to  that  at  which  you  can 
execute  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  notes. 

PAGE  202 

The  following  phrases  should  be  written  from  dicta- 
tion at  least  fifty  times  at  a  rate  of  speed  at  which  you 
can  make  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  outlines : 

How-much,  same-objection,  seventeen-hundred,  when-did- 
you,  sell-it,  you-knew,  that-this,  didn't-you,  eleven-and-a-half, 
an-acre,  I  presume,  it-had,  I-never-saw-the,  you-understood- 
that,  that-is,  to-the-best-of-my-knowledge,  did-you-know,  that- 
was,  I-don 't-know,  do-you-think,  it-was. 

After  concluding  the  above  outlined  work,  have  the 
matter  contained  on  page  202  dictated  to  you  fifty 
times,  limiting  the  speed  to  that  at  which  you  can 
execute  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  notes. 

PAGE  204 

The  following  phrases  should  be  written  from  dicta- 
tion at  least  fifty  times  at  a  rate  of  speed  at  which  you 
can  make  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  outlines : 

Same-objection,  I-think-it-was,  there-was,  on-it,  and-it,  did- 
not,  to-me,  a-sale,  I-did-not-think,  they-would,  they-had-the, 
did-they,  I-don 't-know,  it-was,  an-agreement,  for-sale,  have- 
you,  any-correspondence,  with-you.  regarding-the.  Sweet-Grass- 
Land,  no-sir,  cross-examination,  five-hundred,  that-the.  Mr.- 
Keeley,  to-this,  for-other-matters,  which-he,  for-you,  in-other, 
put-you,  on-to,  and-it-was.  for-the-purpose,  with-him,  yes-sir, 

150 


EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 

aiid-for,  what-he,  would-do,  in-the,  I-will-ask-you-to-state- 
whether-there-was,  aiiy-agreement,  bctweeri-yourself,  and-Mr.- 
Keeley,  at-that-time,  to-pay-him,  that-he-was,  to-anything, 
other-than-the,  fifty,  for-that. 

After  concluding  the  above  outlined  work,  have  the 
matter  contained  on  page  204  dictated  to  you  fifty 
times,  limiting  the  speed  to  that  at  which  you  can 
execute  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  notes. 

PAGE  206 

The  following  phrases  should  be  written  from  dicta- 
tion at  least  fifty  times  at  a  rate  of  speed  at  which  you 
can  make  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  outlines : 

There-was,  no-agreement,  will-you-tell-whether,  anything- 
was,  to-him,  furthor-than,  what-you-have,  you-had-made-the, 
Mr.-Keeley,  for-the-purpose,  getting-the,  on-this,  at-the-time, 
that-the,  I-would-not-have-taken,  I-did-not-have,  an-under- 
standing,  I-would-not-have,  a-moment,  because-the,  required- 
the,  of-the,  and-it-would-have-been,  on-that,  did-you,  and-that- 
transaction,  for-the,  Mr.-Gleason,  it-was,  between-you,  and- 
Gleason,  yes-sir,  as-this,  I-would-like-to-know,  how-long-it-was, 
after-you,  when-this,  five-hundred,  fifteen. 

After  concluding  the  above  outlined  work,  have  the 
matter  contained  on  page  206  dictated  to  you  fifty 
times,  limiting  the  speed  to  that  at  which  you,  can 
execute  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  notes. 

PAGE  208 

The  following  phrases  should  be  written  from  dicta- 
tion at  least  fifty  times  at  a  rate  of  speed  at  which  you 
can  make  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  outlines : 

And-in-the-meantime,  I-will-ask-you-if-he,  put-you,  on-to,  a- 
great-many,  and-the,  five-hundred,  all-the,  and-transactions, 
you-had-with,  including-the,  Gleason-transaction,  and-it-was- 

151 


EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 

not,  that-the,  should-pay-him,  for-tke,  that-it,  should-include, 
all-the-other-transactions,  yes-sir,  and-did,  Mr.-Keeley,  about- 
that-time,  give-your,  and-yourself,  and-did-he,  sell-you,  we-ob- 
ject-to-that-as,  incompetent-and-irrelevant,  and-in-no,  to-the, 
we-bought,  some-lots,  I-do-not-know,  what-the,  concerning-the, 
was-from,  ray-father,  and-where-does,  your-father,  he-did-not, 
in-Seattle,  at-that-time,  that-you,  to-Keeley,  of-the,  and- 
you-wanted,  to-get,  rid-of. 

After  concluding  the  above  outlined  work,  have  the 
matter  contained  on  page  208  dictated  to  you  fifty 
times,  limiting  the  speed  to  that  at  which  you  can 
execute  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  notes. 

PAGE  210 

The  following  phrases  should  be  written  from  dicta- 
tion at  least  fifty  times  at  a  rate  of  speed  at  which  you 
can  make  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  outlines : 

And-you-wanted,  to-take,  an-option,  at-that-time,  in-order- 
to,  save-you,  a-trip,  that-is-objected,  ineompetent-irrelevant- 
and-immaterial,  and-you-say,  it-was,  to-me,  and-the,  was-made, 
Mr.-Gleason,  with-your,  yes-sir,  and-Mr.-Keeley,  was-not,  in- 
any-way,  with-that,  he-had,  to-do,  with-it,  and-before-the,  five- 
hundred,  to-Keeley,  he-had,  helped-the,  and-me-personally. 
and-also,  my-father,  I-think,  and-part-of-the,  that-you,  in-con- 
sideration,  of-that,  and-future,  I-do-not-think,  it-would-have- 
been-necessary-for-us,  to-send-him,  you-never,  to-send-the,  L 
stated,  he-asked-me,  if-the,  was-made,  would-we-take-care-of- 
him,  and-I,  I-thought,  I-would-like-to-know-whether-that,  be- 
fore-or-after,  you-paid-him,  fifty,  for-the,  and-that,  in-itself. 

After  concluding  the  above  outlined  work,  have  the 
matter  contained  on  page  210  dictated  to  you  fifty 
times,  limiting  the  speed  to  that  at  which  you  can 
execute  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  notes. 

PAGE  212 
The  following  phrases  should  he  written  from  dicta- 

152 


EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 

tion  at  least  fifty  times  at  a  rate  of  speed  at  which  you 
can  make  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  outlines : 

Was-closed,  aiid-tlie,  that-you-got,  better-than-the,  from-hiin, 
yes-sir,  I-got,  I-wanted,  you-have-had,  a-great-deal-of,  I-have- 
been,  in-a-way,  with-my,  and-by,  an-option,  that-we-did-not,  if- 
you-had-not,  bought-the,  Mr.-Keeley,  at-that-time,  fifty, 
would-you-have-been,  and-would-you,  to-make,  a-trip,  in-order- 
to,  Mr.-Gleason,  I-could-have,  and-could-have,  to-buy,  but-as- 
he,  paid-the,  in-taking,  out-there,  and-told-me,  he-had-made,  to- 
get-the,  and-had,  some-money,  all-that-it-was,  and-I,  to-him. 

After  concluding  the  above  outlined  work,  have  the 
matter  contained  on  page  212  dictated  to  you  fifty 
times,  limiting  the  speed  to  that  at  which  you  can 
execute  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  notes. 


PAGE  214 

The  following  phrases  should  be  written  from  dicta- 
tion at  least  fifty  times  at  a  rate  of  speed  at  which  you 
can  make  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  outlines : 

Was-there,  Mr.-Keeley,  and-your-company,  about-this,  and- 
as,  I-understand-it,  fifty,  was-simply,  a-present,  to-Mr.Keeley, 
for-him,  to-pay-the,  he-had,  to-that-time,  I-would-not- 
say,  it-was,  it-wasn't,  any-more-than,  and-I,  could-have,  with- 
out-it,  I-thought,  inasmuch-as,  a-rig,  and-gone,  to-some-trpuble, 
I-would,  treat-him,  it-was,  to-get,  and-to,  close-the,  an-under- 
standing,  between-you,  and-Gleason,  when-you-saw-him,  on- 
the,  that-he-would,  give-yon,  a-new,  on-this,  which-he,  yes-sir, 
he-told-me,  that-he,  did-not-think,  a-chance,  with-it,  and-the, 
an-end,  and-Mr.-Gleason,  would-not,  give-him,  any-more,  on-it, 
I-had,  from-yonr,  a-land,  wonld-you-say,  that-the,  on-account, 
of-the,  of-it. 

After  concluding  the  above  outlined  work,  have  the 
matter  contained  on  page  214  dictated  to  you  fifty 
times,  limiting  the  speed  to  that  at  which  you  can 
execute  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  notes. 

153 


EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 
PAGE  216 

The  following  phrases  should  be  written  from  dicta- 
tion at  least  fifty  times  at  a  rate  of  speed  at  which  you 
can  make  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  outlines : 

And-the,  short-time,  it-had,  to-run,  I-know,  I-would-not-have, 
might-have-been,  some-money,  to-someone,  it- wasn't,  to-me,  we- 
had,  a-good-many,  thousand,  of-our-own,  to-sell,  helped-me,  to- 
get,  redirect-examination,  I-will-ask-you-to-state,  all-the,  send- 
him,  five-hundred,  that-is-objected,  a-repetition,  and-not,  I- 
felt,  had-been,  with-us,  how-was-he,  with-this,  and-other,  help- 
ing-you,  with-the,  yes-sir,  that-is-one,  of-the,  in-which-he, 
to-you,  helped-us,  he-had,  helped-you,  in-the,  and-that-was-the, 
with-the-other,  that-you-sent-him,  yes-sir,  put-me,  to-other, 
around-there,  he-would,  tell-me-the. 

After  concluding  the  above  outlined  work,  have  the 
matter  contained  on  page  216  dictated  to  you  fifty 
times,  limiting  the  speed  to  that  at  which  you  can 
execute  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  notes. 


PAGE  218 

The  following  phrases  should  be  written  from  dicta- 
tion at  least  fifty  times  at  a  rate  of  speed  at  which  you 
can  make  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  outlines : 

Character-of-the,  and-he-told-me,  all-of-the,  around-there, 
and-whether-the,  putting-the,  on-them,  he-wanted,  to-get-us, 
into-that,  and-get-us,  in-land,  as-it-would-make-the,  how-about- 
this,  of-your,  that-you,  spoke-of,  you-do-not-know,  no-sir,  get- 
away, on-the,  a-half,  are-you-willing,  to-waive-the,  of-the,  to- 
this,  under-the-circumstances,  I-am. 

After  concluding  the  above  outlined  work,  have  the 
matter  contained  on  page  218  dictated  to  you  fifty 
times,  limiting  the  speed  to  that  at  which  you  can 
execute  neat,  uniform  and  symmetrical  notes. 

154 


EXPERT  COTTRT  REPORTER 

(Cover  Page) 

IN  THE  DISTRICT  COURT  OF  THE  TENTH  JUDICIAL 

DISTRICT  OF  THE  STATE  OF  MONTANA  IN  AND 

FOR  THE  COUNTY  OF  MEAGHER 


ROBERT  W.  BRIDE,  ) 

Plaintiff,      ) 

vs.  ) 

) 

CHARLES  L.  KEELEY,          ) 
Defendant.    ) 


Deposition  of 
LAWRENCE  BATES. 


Appearances : 

O.  B.  WINSTON,  Attorney  for  Plaintiff. 
CHARLES  C.  NORTON,  Attorney  for  Defendant. 


INDEX 

Page 

Direct  Examination    158 

Cross  Examination    204 

Re-Direct  Examination    21 6 

Certificate  of  Notary.  .  .   218 


155 


EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 


TN  THE  DISTRICT  COURT  OF  THE  TENTH  JUDICIAL 

DISTRICT  OF  THE  STATE  OF  MONTANA  IN  AND 

FOR  THE  COUNTY  OF  MEAGHER 


ROBERT  W.  BRIDE, 

Plaintiff, 
vs.  )       DEPOSITION. 

) 

CHARLES  L.  KEELEY,  ) 

Defendant.       ) 

Deposition  of  LAWRENCE  BATES,  a  witness  of  lawful 
age,  taken  on  behalf  of  the  plaintiff  in  the  case  of  Robert  W. 
Bride,  plaintiff,  vs.  Charles  L.  Keeley,  defendant,  pending  in 
the  District  Court  of  the  Tenth  Judicial  District  of  the  State 
of  Montana,  in  and  for  the  county  of  Meagher,  pursuant  to 
stipulation  hereto  attached,  duly  signed  by  the  attorneys  for 
the  respective  parties,  before  Robert  F.  Rose,  a  Notary  Public, 
in  and  for  the  county  of  Lewis  and  Clark  and  state  of  Mon- 
tana, at  his  office  in  the  Electric  Block  in  the  city  of  Helena, 
county  of  Lewis  and  Clark,  on  the  twenty-first  day  of  October, 
1012,  at  the  hour  of  9  o'clock  a.  m. 

PRESENT  : 

Mr.  0.  B.  "Winston,  attorney  for  the  plaintiff; 
Mr.  Charles  C.  Norton,  attorney  for  the  defendant. 

Whereupon  the   following  proceedings  were  had 
and  testimony  taken : 


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LAWRENCE  BATES 

a  witness  of  lawful  age,  was  produced  on  behalf  of  the  plain- 
tiff, and  having  been  first  duly  sworn  by  the  Notary  Public, 
testified  as  follows : 

DIRECT  EXAMINATION 

BY  MR.  WINSTON: 

Q    Please  state  your  name,  Mr.  Bates. 

A   Lawrence  Bates. 

Q    And  your  occupation  and  residence? 

A  I  am  in  the  real-estate  business,  and well,  I  have  no 

set  residence. 

Q    What  do  you  consider  your  address  ? 

A  Well,  partly  at  one  place  and  partly  at  another.  Partly 
at  White  Sulphur  Springs  and  partly  at  Chicago  and  partly 
at  Helena  and  partly  at  St.  Paul. 

Q  I  will  ask  you  if  you  will  please  state  the  circumstances 
under  which  you  first  became  acquainted  in  any  way  with 
the  Gleason  ranch  in  Sweet  Grass  and  Meagher  Counties,  Mon- 
tana? 

A  Well,  I  first  heard  of  the  ranch  .through  my  father.  I 
had  no  description  of  it,  but  was  told  that  Mr.  Keeley,  of  Har- 
lowtown,  had  some  lands  around  there  and  that  in  all  proba- 
bility he  could  put  me  next  to  some  deals,  and  I  went  to 
Harlowtown  sometime  afterward  and  I  met  Mr.  Keeley  there 
and  he  mentioned  several  properties  to  me  and  he  wanted  me 
to  see  some  of  them.  As  near  as  I  can  remember  I  saw  some 
of  them  and  others  I  did  not. 

Q  Did  you  first  talk  in  regard  to  the  Gleason  ranch  with 
Mr.  Keelev  or  Mr.  Bride? 


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A    I  never  met  Mr.  Bride. 

Q  I  will  get  you  to  state  the  first  conversation  you  had  in 
regard  to  those  lands. 

A  As  near  as  I  can  recall,  I  had  my  first  conversation  with 
my  father  and  then  with  Mr.  Keeley. 

Q  Do  you  remember  when  it  was  you  had  your  first  conver- 
sation with  Mr.  Keeley  in  regard  to  those  lands? 

A    No,  I  do  not  remember  exactly. 

Q  I  would  like  for  you  to  state,  with  reference  to  the  time 
that  you  bought  the  ranch,  about  how  long  prior  to  that  was 
it  that  you  first  talked  with  Mr.  Keeley  ? 

A  To  the  best  of  my  recollection,  it  was  about  June  18, 
1908,  something  like  that. 

Q  And  you  had  not  talked  with  him  regarding  the  ranch 
prior  to  that  time  ? 

A  As  well  as  I  can  remember,  I  had  not.  I  think  that  he 
produced  an  option,  and  said  something  about  it,  but  it  did 
not  look  very  good  to  me. 

Q  I  will  ask  you  to  state  in  your  own  way  what  the  deal- 
ings were  that  you  had  with  Mr.  Keeley  regarding  that  land, 
particularly  with  reference  to  the  time  ? 

A  You  see,  it  was  about  four  years  ago,  and  I  did  not  keep 
a  diary,  but  as  near  as  I  can  remember,  it  was  in  June. 

Q    Did  he  write  you  about  it? 

A   No,  sir. 

Q  Do  you  remember  the  first  conversation  you  had  with 
him  in  regard  to  this  land  ? 

A    He  said  he  had  an  option.    I  said  it  was  not  much  good 


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EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 


because  it  only  ran  ten  days  and  the  payments  were  too 
heavy. 

Q    It  must  have  run  more  than  ten  days  at  that  time. 

A  No,  sir,  not  when  I  was  figuring  on  the  land.  He  wanted 
me  to  go  out  and  see  the  ranch  anyway. 

Q   And  you  said  "No"? 

Mr.  Norton :    That  is  objected  to  as  leading  and  suggestive. 

A  I  did  not  care  to  pay  Keeley  a  commission  on  a  deal 
of  that  kind. 

Mr.  Winston :  Q  When  did  you  next  have  a  conversation 
with  him  about  it  ? 

A  About  that  time.  He  wanted  me  to  go  and  see  it  and  he 
paid  for  the  rig. 

Q  Was  this  conversation  in  the  morning  or  in  the  after- 
noon ? 

A    I  do  not  know. 

Q    I  will  get  you  to  state  where  it  was? 

A    I  think  it  was  on  the  street  in  Harlowtown. 

Q  You  went  out  with  him  on  that  day  or  was  it  the  next 
day? 

A  No,  I  did  not  go  with  him.  He  hired  a  rig  and  sent  me 
out. 

Q    When  did  you  come  back? 

A  I  think  it  was  the  following  day.  I  think  I  spent  that 
night  on  the  ranch  and  came  back  the  following  day. 

Q    What  did  you  think  of  the  land  ? 

Mr.  Norton :  That  is  objected  to  as  incompetent,  irrelevant 
and  immaterial. 


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A    It  looked  like  a  good  ranch. 

Mr.  Winston :  Q  It  looked  to  be  worth  more  than  five  and 
a  half  dollars  an  acre? 

Mr.  Norton :  That  is  objected  to  as  incompetent,  irrelevant 
and  immaterial,  and  for  the  further  reason  that  it  has  no  bear- 
ing on  the  matters  set  forth  in  the  petition  in  this  proceeding. 

A    It  looked  as  if  it  were  worth  that  much  money. 

Mr.  Winston :    Q    How  many  acres  were  there  in  that  land  ? 

A    Eight  thousand  eight  hundred  and  twenty-six  acres. 

Q  When  you  got  back  to  Harlowtown,  what  did  you  do 
next? 

A    I  saw  Keeley. 

Q    Did  you  try  to  get  a  buyer? 

Mr.  Norton :    I  object  to  that  as  leading  and  suggestive. 

Mr.  Winston:  Q  Did  you  say  to  Keeley  that  you  would 
try  to  get  a  buyer? 

Mr.  Norton:    I  make  the  same  objection. 

A    No,  I  do  not  think  I  told  Keeley  anything  like  that. 

Mr.  Winston  :    Q    Do  you  recall  what  you  did  say  ? 

A  As  near  as  I  can  remember,  I  told  him  that  the  option  was 
not  worth  anything,  and  that  I  had  had  a  talk  with  Gleason 
and  Gleason  had  said  he  would  give  me  another  option. 

Q  Gleason  said  that  he  would  give  you  another  option  when 
that  one  expired? 


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A    I  think  so or  if  I  got  that  one  out  of  the  way  he  would 

give  me  another  option. 

Q    State  whether  or  not  you  had  to  get  this  paper  out  of 
the  way  or  to  wait  until  July  1st,  when  it  ran  out  ? 

A   Yes,  sir. 

Q    I  would  like  to  know  the  date  of  the  next  transaction 
concerning  that  land  or  the  purchase  of  it  ? 

A    The  following  day,  when  Gleason  came  there. 

Q   Was  that  the  day  following  your  return  to  Harlowtown  ? 

A    As  near  as  I  can  remember,  it  was.    It  must  have  been 
the  following  day. 

Q    In  other  words,  it  was  about  three  or  four  days  after 
you  had  the  talk  with  Keeley  about  the  ranch  ? 

A    Yes. 

Q    I  would  like  to  know  what  happened  the  day  when  he 
came  in? 

A    I  think  Keeley  wanted  some  money  for  the  option — 

how  much  I  have  forgotten and  I  told  him  that  I  would 

give  him  fifty  dollars  to  pay  his  expenses  because  it  wasn't 
worth  anything  to  me. 

Q    "Was  that  the  day  Mr.  Gleason  came  in  ? 

A    Yes. 

Q    I  will  ask  you  to  state  whether  or  not  you  had  shown  this 
land  to  Nelson? 

A    I  think  Mr.  Nelson  came  out  later. 

Q    From  St.  Paul. 

A    No,  from  Iowa.    He  was  not  a  buyer  in  no  sense  of  the 
word;  he  was  simply  a  promoter. 


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EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 


Q    Why  did  you  show  him  the  land  ? 

A  Because  I  wanted  to  have  him  see  it,  if  he  was  going  to 
sell  stock  in  the  company. 

Q  Are  you  sure  that  Nelson  came  there  after  you  had 
purchased  this  ranch? 

A    Yes,  sir.    He  was  associated  with  us. 

Q  I  would  like  for  you  to  give  me  the  conversation  you 
had  with  Keeley  concerning  this  fifty  dollars,  the  purchase 
price  for  the  option? 

A  As  near  as  I  can  say,  Keeley  wanted  a  large  commis- 
sion, an  unreasonable  commission. 

Q    About  how  much  did  he  want? 

A  I  do  not  remember  how  much possibly  twenty-five  or 

fifty  cents  an  acre. 

Q    State  whether  or  not  you  argued  that  with  him  ? 

A  No,  sir,  I  did  not.  I  told  him  I  would  not  pay  it,  because 
it  was  my  business  to  buy  property  without  paying. a  com- 
mission. 

Q  And  this  lasted  several  hours,  this  discussion  as  to 
whether  he  would  give  it  to  you  without  a  commission  ? 

A  I  do  not  know  whether  or  not  it  was  an  hour  or  fifteen 
minutes. 

Q  Now,  to  refresh  your  recollection,  didn't  he  continue  to 
insist  for  a  commission 

A  Yes,  but  I  would  not  pay  it.  I  told  him  I  would  give 
him  fifty  dollars. 

Q  I  will  ask  if  he  did  not  say  to  you  "What  am  I  going 
to  get  if  the  deal  goes  through'"? 

A  No,  sir.  That  came  afterward,  after  the  deal  was  all 
through,  and  Mr.  Gleason  had  signed  up  an  option  with  me  at 
a  later  date. 

Q  I  will  ask  if  you  did  not  say  to  Keeley  at  that  time  that 
you  would  do  what  was  right? 

A    No,  I  did  not. 


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EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 


Q    What  did  you  say? 

A  Keeley  said,  ' '  If  you  come  out  on  this  deal  all  right  and 
make  some  money,  you  will  remember  me,  won't  you"?  or 
something  like  that  ? 

Q    And  you  said  "Yes"? 

A  No,  sir,  I  did  not  bind  myself  at  all.  I  said  in  a  laugh- 
ing way  that  we  would  look  after  him  or  something  of  that 
kind. 

Q  Isn  't  it  a  fact  that  you  told  me  in  Butte,  Mr.  Bates,  that 
the  conversation  was  like  this,  that  Keeley  said  to  you  ''If 
this  deal  goes  through"-  — no,  didn't  you  say  this,  "what  do 
you  expect  out  of  this,"  or  something  like  that,  and  didn't  he 
say  "whatever  is  right"? 

A  No,  I  do  not  think  so.  I  do  not  think  I  said  anything 
like  that.  I  said  to  you  in  Butte  practically  what  I  have  said 
here,  to  my  best  recollection. 

Q    You  mentioned  the  word  ' '  right ' '  over  there,  Mr.  Bates. 

A  I  could  not,  Mr.  Winston,  for  the  reason  that  I  am  not 
absolutely  clear  what  I  did  say.  I  was  not  under  oath  at  that 
time,  but  I  told  you  what  happened  to  my  best  recollection, 
as  it  does  not  make  any  difference  to  me. 

Q  I  will  ask  you,  Mr.  Bates,  isn  't  it  a  fact  that  you  told  me 
in  the  dining  room  of  the  Thornton,  didn't  you  use  the  phrase 
that  Keeley  had  said  "whatever  is  right"  or  "what  is  right"? 

A  Whether  I  said  that  or  not,  if  I  did  say  anything,  it  was 
"whatever  I  saw  fit  to  give  him."  If  I  did  not  want  to  give 
him  anything,  I  did  not  have  to.  I  was  not  bound  to  give 


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EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 


him  anything.  I  never  thought  I  was  bound  to  give  him 
anything. 

Q  Are  you  willing  to  swear  that  you  did  not  say  to  me  that 
Keeley  answered,  when  you  asked  him  "what  do  you  expect 
to  get  out  of  it,"  that  Keeley  answered  "whatever  is  right"? 

Mr.  Norton :  That  is  objected  to  as  incompetent,  irrelevant 
and  immaterial,  and — 

Mr.  Winston:  Q  (Interrupting)  I  will  refer  to  the  date 
to  make  it  clear. 

Mr.  Norton:  Please  let  me  get  in  my  objection.  And 
further,  has  no  bearing  upon  any  of  the  matters  set  forth 
in  the  petition  in  this  case. 

Mr.  Winston :  Q  It  was  a  matter  of  fifteen  or  sixteen  days 
ago 

A   It  makes  no  difference.    I  remember  the  time. 

Q  Would  you  be  willing  to  swear  that  you  did  not  say 
that? 

A  I  said  a  whole  lot  of  things  to  you,  Mr.  Winston,  not  as 
a  witness,  but  to  give  you  the  straight  and  unbiased  truth  con- 
cerning this  transaction.  You  did  not  understand  me  if  you 
got  the  impression  that  I  said  ' '  whatever  was  right, ' '  because 
I  said  that  I  would  take  care  of  him  or  something  like  that. 
I  had  no  idea  I  would  be  able  to  swing  the  deal,  because 
I  had  no  idea  that  Nelson  and  our  company  would  be  able  to 


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handle  it,  because  such  a  transaction  takes  a  whole  lot  of 
money. 

Q  You  will  testify  that  you  said  to  him  you  would  take  care 
of  him  if  the  deal  went  through? 

Mr.  Norton :    That  is  objected  to. 

A  I  said  I  would  probably  remember  him.  I  laughed  at 
the  time.  I  did  not  take  it  seriously  at  all  because  I  did  not 
feel  I  was  under  any  obligations  to  Keeley.  As  near  as  I  can 
recollect,  my  idea  was  to  keep  Gleason  on  the  good  side  of 
Keeley,  and  because  Keeley  was  well  acquainted  with  land 
at  Harlowtown,  and  then  I  thought  I  could  trust  him  and  he 
could  put  me  on  to  other  deals,  and  I  wanted  to  be  friends  with 
him. 

Mr.  "Winston :  Q  I  would  like  to  know  whether  or  not  you 
know  his  reputation  in  the  community  in  which  he  lives  for 
truth  and  veracity? 

Mr.  Norton :  That  is  objected  to  as  incompetent,  irrelevant 
and  immaterial,  and  not  touching  any  of  the  matters  set 
forth  in  the  petition  in  this  proceeding,  and  not — 

Mr.  Winston:  Q   (Interrupting)   Do  you  know  it? 

Mr.  Norton:  And  also  upon  the  ground  that  the  proper 
foundation  for  the  reception  of  such  evidence  has  not  been 
laid. 

A    That  has  no  bearing  upon  this  thing  at  all. 

Mr.  Winston:  Q  I  ask  you  to  state  whether  or  not  you 
know  what  his  reputation  is  in  the  community  in  which  he 
lives  for  truth  and  veracity?  * 

(*  The    constant    repetition    of    the    words    "for   truth   and 
veracity"    warrants    the    adoption    of    a    special    phrase.)    • 


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Mr.  Norton :    I  object  to  that  on  the  same  grounds. 

A    Do  you  mean  now  or  at  that  time? 

Mr.  Winston:    Q    I  mean  now. 

Mr.  Norton :    Please  note  the  same  objection. 

A  I  know  Mr.  Keeley  and  I  discount  a  great  deal  of  what 
I  hear. 

Mr.  Winston :    Q    Answer  the  question.     State  whether  or 
not  you  know  what  his  reputation  is  ?    I  do  not  want  what  you 
think  about  it.     Do  you  know  whether  his  reputation   for 
truth  and  veracity  in  the  community  in  which  he  lives — 
do  you  know  what  it  is  ? 

A  No,  sir,  I  do  not,  because  I  never  inquired.  I  only  know 
what  I  heard. 

Q    You  have  heard  what  his  reputation  is? 

A  I  have  heard  both  good  and  bad.  I  did,  in  a  way,  from 
hearsay.  I  did  not  care  and  it  did  not  bother  me  because  in 
all  I  had  to  do  with  Keeley,  everything  was  satisfactory. 

Q  Isn't  it  a  fact  that  you  know  what  his  reputation  is  in 
the  community  in  which  he  lives  for  truth  and  veracity? 

Mr.  Norton :  I  object  to  that  as  incompetent,  irrelevant  and 
immaterial,  and  as  not  related  to  any  of  the  matters  set  forth 
in  the  petition,  and  because  the  proper  grounds  for  the  recep- 
tion of  impeaching  testimony  have  not  been  laid,  and  because 
it  calls  for  a  conclusion  of  the  witness,  and  is  leading  and  sug- 
gestive, and  he  has  answered  the  question  that  he  does  not 
know. 


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Mr.  Winston :    Q    Answer  the  question. 

A    What  is  the  question? 

(Last  question  read  by  the  stenographer) 

A  I  don 't  know  how  to  answer  that  question.  I  don 't  know 
what  the  general  reputation  of  Mr.  Keeley  is.  I  have  heard 
both  sides  of  it  but  what  the  general  reputation  is,  I  don't 
know.  That  is  as  near  as  I  can  answer  that. 

Q  Now,  about  this  option,  that  is,  about  the  last  conversa- 
tion that  you  had  with  Keeley  prior  to  the  time  that  the  deal 
went  through,  as  to  you  remembering  him  if  the  deal  went 
through.  Now,  will  you  state  again — pardon  the  repetition— 
as  near  as  you  can  remember,  what  the  date  was  and  what  the 
conversation  was  as  to  you  remembering  him  ? 

Mr.  Norton:  That  is  objected  to  as  being  a  repetition  and 
also  on  the  grounds  heretofore  urged. 

A  Well,  it  was  something  like  this,  if  we  were  successful 
and  made  some  money  out  of  the  deal,  we  would  look  after 
him  or  take  care  of  him  or  something  like  that. 

Mr.  Winston :  Q  Prior  to  that  time  had  Keeley  ever  sold 
you  any  other  option. 

A    No,  sir,  that  was  the  first  deal  I  ever  had  with  him. 

Q  Are  you  willing  to  testify  that  he  called  your  attention 
to  the  fact  that  the  deal  had  gone  through  and  the  commission 
was  due  him  1 

A  No.  About  fifteen  months  after  that  we  had  a  letter  from 
him.  He  had  seen  me  in  Harlowtown  and  he  asked  me  if  we 


-  / 

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EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 


were  not  going  to  remember  him,  and  wanted  to  know  if  there 
was  anything  coming  to  him,  as  we  had  transferred  the  proper- 
ty to  the  company.  I  said  I  would  see  my  associates  in  St.  Paul, 
and  then  he  wrote  me  as  a  reminder,  because  I  had  not  taken 
it  up. 

Q    How  did  he  know  that  the  deal  had  gone  through  ? 

A  Oh,  it  was  known  that  the  deal  had  gone  through,  and  it 
was  a  matter  of  record  in  the  County  books. 

Q  He  said  "since  the  deal  has  gone  through,  aren't  you 
going  to  remember  me?" 

Mr.  Norton :  That  is  objected  to  as  leading  and  suggestive 
and  as  incompetent,  irrelevant  and  immaterial. 

A    Something  like  that. 

Mr.  Winston :  Q  He  was  referring,  of  course,  to  the  Glea- 
son  ranch? 

A  Yes,  and  then  he  had  been  pretty  decent  to  me  in  other 
things,  and  had  put  me  next  to  three  or  four  ranches  for  sale. 

Q  But  the  conversation  referred,  of  course,  to  the  Gleasoii 
ranch  ? 

A  Not  particularly.  I  did  not  feel  we  were  bound  to  give 
him  anything  and  told  him  I  did  not  think  we  would  have  to, 
but  I  would  see  the  rest  of  the  men  in  the  company  and  would 
see  what  they  thought. 

Q  I  will  ask  you  if  it  is  not  a  fact  that  he  was  asking  you 
about  that  particular  ranch? 


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EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 


A  In  a  way.  He  wanted  to  know  if  we  would  remember 
him,  if  there  was  anything  coming  to  him  it  was  all  right,  and 
if  there  was  not  he  wanted  to  know  it. 

Q  I  will  ask  you  to  state  whether  or  not  he  used  the  words 
"the  deal  has  gone  through?" 

A    I  do  not  know  whether  or  not  he  used  those  words. 

Q  You  say  "in  a  way."  This  is  rather  important.  That 
did  refer  to  the  Gleason  deal  absolutely  and  entirely,  not  ' '  in 
a  way."  At  that  particular  conversation  it  referred  to  that 
deal,  not  what  you  meant,  but  what  you  were  talking  about  ? 

Mr.  Norton :  Oh,  he  has  answered  that.  He  said  that  it 
referred  to  several  other  things.  That  is  a  repetition  and  I 
object  to  it. 

A  I  do  not  think  it  referred  to  the  Gleason  deal  in  parti- 
cular, but  inasmuch  as  he  had  been  good  to  us  in  other  ways, 
I  said  that  we  would  see. 

Mr.  Winston :  Q  He  was  referring  to  the  Gleason  deal 
itself.  That  is  what  you  said. 

Mr.  Norton:  That  is  objected  to  as  a  repetition.  He  has 
already  stated  that  it  included  several  other  deals  or  other 
commissions. 

A  "Well,  I  suppose  Keeley  meant  that  deal.  I  do  not  know 
what  he  meant,  but  I  would  not  have  paid  him,  I  don't  sup- 
pose— if  Keeley  had  not  treated  us  white  and  helped  us  out  at 
different  times  after  we  had  made  this  deal,  I  would  not  have 
paid  him  the  money.  If  he  had  let  me  alone  I  would  not  have 


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EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 


paid  him  anything,  but  in  view  of  all  those  things,  I  presume 
that  Keeley  thought  he  was  entitled  to  something. 

Mr.  Winston :    Q    On  that  Gleason  deal  ? 

A    Yes,  and  the  others. 

Q  That,  of  course,  was  before  the  "Circle  S"  ranch  deal 
went  through? 

A  I  was  not  with  the  company  when  the  ' '  Circle  S ' '  ranch 
deal  went  through.  I  had  resigned  from  the  company. 

Q  If  you  had  resigned  from  the  company,  it  must  have 
been  after. 

A  Not  necessarily,  because  I  still  was  associated  with  the 
company  on  the  deals  that  had  not  been  closed  up  yet,  but  any 
business  that  was  taken  on  in  the  matter  of  new  property,  I 
had  nothing  to  do  with  it. 

Q  There  was  another  ranch  deal,  as  I  understand  it,  upon 
which  Mr.  Keeley  had  an  option  that  he  turned  over  to  you, 
or  later  turned  over  to  you  ? 

A    No.    He  sold  the  company  some  land. 

Q    The  other  was  an  out  and  out  sale? 

A  I  do  not  know  anything  about  that,  only  I  heard  it  was 
an  out  and  out  sale,  and  to  the  best  of  my  knowledge  it  was. 

Q  Mr.  Keeley  in  a  letter  referred  to  a  commission  on  ac- 
count of  the  ranch  ? 

Mr.  Norton :  That  is  objected  to  as  incompetent,  irrelevant 
and  immaterial.  The  letter  is  the  best  evidence. 

Mr.  Winston:    Q    Mr.  Keeley 's  letter  was  as  follows: 

''Lawrence  Bates,  Esquire,  St.  Paul,  Dear  Sir:  When  you 


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EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 


were  here,  you  told  me  you  would  see  your  company  in  regard 
to  the  commission  on  the  ranch  deal  due  me.  If  there  is  any- 
thing due  me,  I  wish  you  would  have  them  send  me  a  check. 
If  there  is  not  any,  please  advise  me.  Yours  truly,  Charles 
L.  Keeley. "  Now,  he  says  "the  ranch  deal."  Do  you  know 
what  ranch  he  refers  to  in  that  letter? 

Mr.  Norton :  The  letter  is  the  best  evidence  in  itself,  and  I 
object  to  that. 

A    He  referred  to  the  Gleason  ranch,  of  course. 

Mr.  Winston :  Q  Now,  Mr.  Bates,  I  would  like  to  know 
why  he  used  the  term  "commission"?  Do  you  know  that? 

A  I  do  not  know.  He  is  apt  to  use  any  kind  of  a  term. 
I  suppose  it  was  his  way  of  expressing  what  he  thought  was 
due  him,  whether  it  was  a  commission  or  a  gift  or  a  present 
or  a  demand. 

Q  And  it  was  when  you  received  that  letter  that  you  turned 
to  the  secretary  of  the  company  and  said  "here  is  a  letter 
from  Keeley, ' '  or  something  like  that ?  "I  suppose  he  wants 
about  eight  hundred  dollars  and  we  will  give  him  five  hun- 
dred and  see  if  that  won't  quiet  him." 

Mr.  Norton :  That  is  objected  to  as  incompetent,  irrelevant 
and  immaterial,  and  as  being  a  conversation  between  parties 
had  out  of  the  presence  of  Mr.  Keeley,  and  as  not  being  re- 
lated to  any  of  the  issues  or  matters  set  forth  in  the  petition 
in  this  proceeding,  and  also  as  a  leading  and  suggestive  ques- 
tion. 

A.    No. 


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EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 


Mr.  Winston:  Q  Now,  tell  me,  Mr.  Bates,  what  did  you 
say  to  your  secretary  regarding  the  letter  for  $500? 

Mr.  Norton :  That  is  objected  to  as  incompetent,  irrelevant 
and  immaterial,  until  it  is  shown  that  Mr.  Keeley  was  present 
and  the  conversation  was  had  in  his  presence. 

A  It  was  not  my  secretary  in  the  first  place.  It  was  Mr. 
Taylor,  who  is  a  partner  of  mine,  and  is  secretary-treasurer. 
To  my  best  recollection  I  received  this  letter  and  took  it  to 
Mr.  Taylor  and  said  "Here  is  a  letter  from  Keeley."  I  had 
talked  with  him  already  about  the  matter  and  we  decided  that 
inasmuch  as  Keeley  had  played  fair  with  us  and  had  done 
so  many  favors  for  us,  we  ought  to  do  something  for  him  in 
some  sort  of  way,  and  Taylor  asked  me  what  I  thought  was 
right.  I  said  "Oh,  I  suppose  $600,"  and  Taylor  says  "Well, 
that  is  pretty  strong,  because  we  do  not  have  to  pay  him  any- 
thing and  we  need  the  money  as  much  as  he  does  "  and  we 
finally  decided  to  send  him  $500,  which  we  did. 

Mr.  Winston :  Q  About  how  long  was  that  after  this  letter 
was  received  by  you? 

A  I  do  not  know  the  date  of  the  letter,  but  I  imagine  it  was 
within  a  few  days.  As  near  as  I  can  recollect,  it  was  within 
a  few  days  after  we  received  it,  and  it  was  sent  on  September 
24,  1909. 

Q    Have  you  a  copy  of  the  letter  you  sent  to  him  ? 

A    Yes,  sir. 

Q    Read  it  into  the  record. 


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189 


EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 


Mr.  Norton :  That  is  objected  to  as  incompetent,  irrelevant 
and  immaterial,  and  as  not  having  any  bearing  upon  any  of 
the  matters  set  forth  in  the  petition  in  this  proceeding,  and  as 
not  being  the  original  letter,  and  consequently  not  the  best 
evidence,  and  as  hearsay. 

A  This  letter  is  dated  September  24,  1909.  It  reads: 
"Charles  L.  Keeley,  Esquire,  Harlowtown,  Montana,  Dear 
Sir :  Your  letter  of  recent  date  to  Mr.  Bates  has  been  handed 
to  us,  and  we  enclose  herewith  our  check  for  $500,  which  we 
trust  will  be  satisfactory.  "We  hope,  after  we  have  turned 
some  of  our  present  holdings  into  money,  to  be  able  to  do  some 
more  business  in  your  country  which  will  be  of  mutual  benefit 
and  beg  to  remain,  yours  truly."  This  letter,  I  believe,  was 
signed  by  Mr.  Taylor.  I  do  not  think  I  was  with  the  company 
at  that  time — I  am  pretty  sure  of  it. 

Mr.  Winston:  Q  Do  you  know  upon  what  company  that 
check  was  made  ? 

Mr.  Norton :  That  is  objected  to,  as  the  check  is  the  best 
evidence. 

A  It  was  made  on  the  First  National  Bank.  That  is  my 
recollection. 

Mr.  Winston:    Q    The  First  National  Bank? 

A    Yes,  sir,  of  St.  Paul,  Minnesota. 

Q  Do  you  know  whether  any  other  checks  passed  between 
your  company  and  Charles  L.  Keeley. 

A    No. 


inn 


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191 


EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 


Q    You  do  not  know,  or  were  there  any  others  ? 

A  I  know  that  there  were  no  others  that  had  anything  to 
do  with  this  matter. 

Q  And  there  were  no  other  cheeks  passed  between  you  and 
Mr.  Keeley? 

A    No,  sir. 

Q    And  no  other  cash  transactions  other  than  the  fifty? 

A    No,  absolutely  none. 

Q  I  would  like  to  know  whether  there  were  any  other 
checks  passed  between  your  company  and  Charles  L.  Keeley 
other  than  the  $500  check  and  the  check  for  the  lands  pur- 
chased from  him,  to  which  you  referred  a  moment  ago. 

A  I  cannot  tell  whether  that  was  paid  by  check.  I  had 
nothing  to  do  with  it.  I  have  had  no  active  interest  with  the 
company  since  that  time. 

Q  At  the  time  that  you  left  the  company,  prior  to  that 
time  there  had  been  but  one  check  passed  between  them,  and 
that  was  this  $500  check. 

A    The  $500  check. 

Q  Did  Mr.  Keeley  tell  you  at  that  time  that  Mr.  Bride  was  a 
partner  of  his? 

A    No. 

Q    Did  he  refer  to  it  at  all  ? 

A  After  the  deal  was  closed  he  said  something  about  a 
fellow  claiming  he  had  an  interest  in  it,  or  something  like  that, 
but  my  deal  was  already  made  and  closed,  and  I  did  not  pay 
any  attention  to  him  and  knew  nothing  about  it  and  didn't 
care. 


192 


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193 


EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 


Q    What  is  that  land  worth,  Mr.  Bates,  at  this  time  ? 

Mr.  Norton:  That  is  objected  to  as  incompetent,  irrelevant 
and  immaterial,  and  as  calling  for  a  conclusion  of  the  witness, 
and  for  the  further  reason  that  it  has  no  bearing  on  any  of 
the  matters  set  forth  in  the  petition  filed  in  this  proceeding 
or  to  any  of  the  issues  in  the  case  in  the  court  of  Meagher 
County  between  Mr.  Bride  and  Mr.  Keeley,  and  further  that 
it  relates  to  a  past  transaction. 

A   What  it  will  sell  for. 

Q  This  property  is  worth  thirteen  or  fourteen  dollars  an 
acre ;  it  will  sell  for  that  ? 

A  No,  sir.  If  it  were  mine,  I  would  probably  hold  it  at 
twelve  dollars  and  sell  it.  If  I  were  trying  to  buy  it,  I  would 
probably  try  to  buy  it  for  ten  dollars  or  less. 

Q   You  think  it  could  be  sold  now  for  ten  dollars  an  acre  ? 

A   Possibly.    You  cannot  sell  anything  nowadays. 

Q  And  your  company  sold  this  land  to  the  Sweet  Grass 
Land  Company? 

Mr.  Norton :  That  is  objected  to  as  incompetent,  irrelevant 
and  immaterial. 

A   Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Winston:    Q    When  was  that? 

A    August,  1908. 

Q  At  what  price  was  it  sold  to  the  Sweet  Grass  Land 
Company  ? 


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EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 


Mr.  Norton :  Objected  to  as  incompetent,  irrelevant  and 
immaterial. 

A  I  think  it  was  about  seven  and  a  half  dollars  an  acre. 
It  was  probably  considerably  less  than  that,  because  we  had 
the  expense  of  organizing  the  company  and  doing  all  of  the 
work  and  making  the  railroad  fences. 

Mr.  Winston:  Q  "When  you  say  considerably  less,  what 
have  you  to  say  as  to  the  exact'  price  ? 

A  I  don't  know.  I  have  not  the  books.  I  don't  know  be- 
cause I  do  not  know  what  the  expenses  were. 

Q    You  told  me  it  was  seven  and  a  half  an  acre. 

A  I  told  you  the  property  was  turned  into  the  company  at 
seven  and  a  half  an  acre. 

Q  I  would  like  to  know  whether  or  not  the  Sweet  Grass 
Land  Company  is  still  in  existence? 

Mr.  Norton :  That  is  objected  to  as  incompetent,  irrelevant 
and  immaterial. 

A    To  the  best  of  my  knowledge  it  is. 

Mr.  Winston :  Q  Who  was  the  president  of  that  company 
at  that  time  ? 

Mr.  Norton :  Objected  to  as  incompetent,  irrelevant,  and 
immaterial. 

A   I  don't  remember. 

Mr.  Winston :  Q  Did  you  have  any  conversation  with  any 
of  the  members  of  the  Sweet  Grass  Land  Company  regarding 
the  sale  of  it? 

Mr.  Norton :  Objected  to  as  incompetent,  irrelevant  and 
immaterial. 

A    Yes. 

Mr.  Winston:  Q  1  would  like  to  know  whom  it  was  you 
talked  with? 


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EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 


Mr.  Norton  :    Same  objection. 

A  Well,  I  don't  remember  exactly.  I  probably  had  a  good 
many  of  them.  I  talked  with  Mr.  Taylor  and  Mr.  Nelson. 
They  were  stockholders. 

Mr.  Winston :    Q    Is  that  a  Montana  corporation  ? 

A    I  do  not  know. 

Q  I  would  like  to  know  if  you  had  anything  to  do  witli  the 
forming  of  the  corporation? 

A    Absolutely  nothing. 

Q  Have  you  any  other  correspondence  connected  with  the 
sale  of  that  land  with  you  ? 

A    No,  I  don't  know  that  I  have  any  at  all. 

Q    Have  you  any  books  relating  to  it  ? 

A    No. 

Q    Did  you  transfer  your  option  to  the  company  in  writing  ? 

A  No.  I  was  a  partner  in  the  concern  and  I  just  simply 
turned  it  into  them  as  I  did  all  my  options.  They  simply  did 
business  with  Mr.  Gleason. 

Q  Were  you  a  stockholder  in  the  Sweet  Grass  Land  Com- 
pany ? 

A   Yes. 

Q    How  much  stock  did  you  have? 

Mr.  Norton  :  To  which  we  object  as  incompetent,  irrelevant 
and  immaterial.  The  record  is  the  best  evidence. 

A    Seventeen  hundred  dollars  worth  of  stock. 


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EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 


Mr.  Winston :  Q  Your  company  made  two  dollars  an  acre 
on  this  transaction? 

A    No,  sir. 

Q    How  much  did  you  make? 

Mr.  Norton:  Objected  to  as  incompetent,  irrelevant  and 
immaterial. 

A    We  made  in  the  neighborhood  of  $12,600. 

Mr.  Winston :    Q    How  do  you  estimate  that  ? 

Mr.  Norton :  Objected  to  as  incompetent,  irrelevant  and 
immaterial. 

A  Each  of  us  had  $1,700  worth  of  stock.  We  had  expenses 
out  of  this  and  probably  our  profit  did  not  amount  to  more 
than  $10,000  at  the  most. 

Mr.  Winston :  Q  Does  the  Sweet  Grass  Land  Company 
own  that  land  now  ? 

Mr.  Norton :  Objected  to  as  incompetent,  irrelevant  and 
immaterial. 

A    I  don't  know. 

Mr.  Winston  :  Q  Did  the  Sweet  Grass  Land  Company  ever 
sell  that  land  ? 

Mr.  Norton :  That  is  objected  to  as  incompetent,  irrelevant 
and  immaterial. 

A    I  don't  know. 

Mr.  Winston :    Q    Did  you  sell  your  stock  ? 

Mr.  Norton :    The  same  objection. 

A    Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Winston:    Q    To  whom? 


200 


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EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 


A    M.  J.  Brady. 

Mr.  Winston :    Q    For  how  much  ?. 

Mr.  Norton:     Same  objection. 

A    Seventeen  hundred  dollars. 

Mr.  Winston :    Q    When  did  you  sell  it  ? 

Mr.  Norton:     Same  objection. 

A    This  spring. 

Mr.  Winston :  Q  You  knew  that  this  land  had  changed 
hands,  didn  't  you,  this  Gleason  ranch  1 

Mr.  Norton:    Same  objection. 

Mr.  Winston :    Q    For  eleven  and  a  half  dollars  an  acre  ? 

Mr.  Norton:    Same  objection. 

A    I  presume  it  had ;  I  never  saw  the  contract. 

Mr.  Winston:  Q  You  understood  that  it  sold  for  eleven 
dollars  and  fifty  cents? 

Mr.  Norton:    Same  objection. 

A    That  is  to  the  best  of  my  knowledge. 

Mr.  Winston:    Q    Did  you  know  to  whom  that  was  sold? 

A    No,  I  don't  know  exactly, 

Q    Whom  do  you  think  it  was  sold  to? 


202 


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EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 


Mr.  Norton:    Same  objection. 

A  I  think  it  was  sold  to  M.  A.  Rice  and  M.  J.  Brady. 
There  was  no  real  money  put  down  on  it,  and  it  did  not  look 
good  to  me  as  a  sale  because  I  did  not  think  they  would  go 
through  with  it,  as  I  did  not  think  they  had  the  money. 

Mr.  Winston :    Q    Did  they  finally  come  through  ? 

A    I  don't  know. 

Q    It  was  an  agreement  for  sale? 

A    It  was  an  agreement  for  sale. 

Q  Have  you  any  correspondence  with  you  regarding  the 
Sweet  Grass  Land  Company  ? 

A    No,  sir. 

Q  What  other  correspondence  have  you  with  you  concern- 
ing this? 

A    None. 

CROSS  EXAMINATION 
BY  MR.  NORTON: 

Q  The  $500  that  the  company  sent  Mr.  Keeley  did  not 
apply  alone  to  this  Gleason  transaction,  but  was  for  other 
matters  which  he  had  attended  to  for  you  in  other  deals,  deals 
which  he  had  put  you  on  to,  and  it  was  for  the  purpose  of 
keeping  in  good  standing  with  him  ? 

A    Yes,  sir,  and  for  what  he  would  do  in  the  future. 

Q  I  will  ask  you  to  state  whether  there  was  any  agreement 
or  understanding  between  yourself  and  Mr.  Keeley  at  that 
time  to  pay  him  anything  or  that  he  was  entitled  to  anything 
other  than  the  $50  for  that  option? 


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EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 


A    There  was  absolutely  no  agreement. 

Q  Will  you  tell  whether  anything  was  ever  paid  to  him 
directly  or  indirectly  further  than  what  you  have  testified? 

A   Nothing. 

Q  You  had  made  the  arrangements  with  Mr.  Keeley  partly 
for  the  purpose  of  getting  the  option  on  this  land  at  the  time 
that  the  Keeley  option  expired. 

A  Yes.  I  would  not  have  taken  Keeley 's  option  if  I  did 
not  have  an  understanding  with  Gleason;  I  would  not  have 
considered  it  a  moment,  because  the  terms  required  the  pay- 
ment of  the  money  in  two  years  and  it  would  have  been  im- 
possible for  us  to  handle  it  on  that  basis. 

Q    Did  you  tell  Keeley  that  ? 

A  Yes. 

Q  And  that  transaction  for  the  Gleason  ranch  was  with 
Mr.  Gleason? 

A   Absolutely. 

Q    It  was  between  you  and  Gleason? 

A   Yes,  sir;  as  this  paper  will  show. 

Q  I  would  like  to  know  how  long  it  was  after  you  secured 
this  option  from  Mr.  Keeley  when  this  check  for  $500  was 
given  to  Mr.  Keeley? 

A    About  fifteen  months. 


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EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 


Q  And  in  the  meantime,  I  will  ask  you  if  he  put  you  on  to 
other  deals? 

A   A  great  many. 

Q  And  the  five  hundred  included  all  the  deals  and  transac- 
tions you  had  with  Keeley,  including  the  Gleason  transaction  ? 

A   Yes. 

Q  And  it  was  not  intended  that  the  five  hundred  should 
pay  him  for  the  Gleason  transaction  alone,  but  that  it  should 
include  all  the  other  transactions? 

A   Yes,  sir. 

Q  And  did  Mr.  Keeley  in  the  meantime  or  about  that  time 
give  your  company  and  yourself  tips  on  other  deals,  and  did 
he  sell  you  some  lots  ? 

Mr.  Winston :  We  object  to  that  as  incompetent  and  irrele- 
vant and  in  no  manner  pertaining  to  the  issues. 

A  We  bought  some  lots,  the  company  did.  I  don't  know 
what  the  lots  were. 

Mr.  Norton :  Q  The  first  intimation  concerning  the  Gleason 
transaction  was  from  whom? 

A  The  first  intimation  concerning  the  Gleason  transaction 
was  from  my  father. 

Q    And  where  does  your  father  live? 

A  In  Seattle.  He  did  not  live  in  Seattle  at  that  time,  but 
in  Butte. 

Q  And  the  $50  that  you  paid  to  Keeley  was  because  of  the 
option,  and  you  wanted  to  get  rid  of  that  option,  and  you 


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EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 


wanted  to  take  an  option  direct  from  Gleason  at  that  time  in 
order  to  save  you  a  trip  back  to  Harlowtown  ? 

Mr.  Winston:  That  is  objected  to  as  incompetent,  irrele- 
vant, and  immaterial. 

A   Yes. 

Mr.  Norton :  Q  And  you  say  at  that  time  the  option  was 
worthless  ? 

A   It  was  worthless  to  me. 

Q  And  the  deal  was  made  by  Mr.  Gleason  with  your  com- 
pany ? 

A   Yes,  sir. 

Q  And  Mr.  Keeley  was  not  in  any  way,  directly  or  in- 
directly, connected  with  that  deal? 

A   No;  he  had  nothing  to  do  with  it. 

Q-  And  before  the  check  for  five  hundred  was  sent  to 
Keeley  he  had  helped  your  people  with  other  deals  ? 

A  Helped  the  company  and  me  personally,  and  also  my 
father,  I  think. 

Q  And  part  of  the  five  hundred  that  you  sent  him  was  in 
consideration  of  that  an<,l  future  favors? 

A  Yes,  sir.  I  did  not  think  it  would  have  been  necessary 
for  us  to  send  him  this  money. 

Q  You  never  obligated  yourself  or  promised  to  send  him 
money  ? 

A  No.  As  I  stated  before,  he  asked  me  if  the  deal  was 
made  would  we  take  care  of  him,  and  I  said  I  thought  we 
probably  would. 

Q  I  would  like  to  know  whether  that  conversation  was 
before  or  after  you  paid  him  the  $50  for  the  option  and  that 
deal  was  in  itself  closed? 


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EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 


A   The  deal  was  closed. 

Q  And  the  option  that  you  got  from  Gleason  was  better 
than  the  option  that  Keeley  got  from  him. 

A   Yes,  sir.     I  got  it  the  way  I  wanted  it. 

Q  You  have  had  a  great  deal  of  experience  in  land  mat- 
ters, promoting,  etc.? 

A  Not  a  great  deal.  I  have  been  very  successful  in  a  way 
with  my  company  and  by  myself.  We  very  seldom  took  an 
option  that  we  did  not  go  through  with. 

Q  If  you  had  not  bought  the  option  from  Mr.  Keeley  at 
that  time  for  $50,  would  you  have  been  out  considerable 
money,  and  would  you  probably  have  had  to  make  a  trip 
back  in  order  to  conclude  the  deal  with  Mr.  Gleason  ? 

A  I  could  have  signed  up  my  option  with  Gleason  and 
dated  it  July  1st,  and  could  have  waited  there  at  Harlow- 
town,  or  could  have  bought  Mr.  Keeley 's  option.  The  easiest 
way  was  to  buy  Mr.  Keeley 's  option  for  $50,  but  as  he  had 
paid  the  livery  hire  in  taking  me  out  there  and  told  me  he 
had  made  a  trip  to  get  the  option  and  had  used  some  money, 
the  fifty  was  all  that  it  was  worth  and  I  gave  it  to  him. 


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EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 


Q  Was  there  any  collusion  or  secret  understanding  be- 
tween Mr.  Keeley  and  your  company  about  this  option  ? 

A   Absolutely  none. 

Q  And  as  I  understand  it,  the  giving  of  the  $50  was  simply 
a  present  to  Mr.  Keeley  for  him  to  pay  the  expenses  he  had 
incurred  up  to  that  time. 

A  Well,  I  would  not  say  it  was  a  present.  It  wasn't  worth 
any  more  than  $50,  and  I  could  have  gotten  along  without  it. 
but  I  thought  inasmuch  as  Keeley  had  taken  me  out  in  a  rig 
and  gone  to  some  trouble  himself,  I  would  treat  him  fairly. 
It  was  only  of  value  in  helping  me  to  get  my  option  with  Mr. 
Gleason  and  to  -close  the  thing  up  promptly. 

Q  Was  there  an  understanding  between  you  and  Gleason 
when  you  saw  him  on  the  ranch  that  he  would  give  you  a 
new  option  on  this  land,  which  he  did  give  you? 

A  Yes,  sir.  He  told  me  that  he  did  not  think  Keeley  had 
a  chance  of  coming  through  with  it. 

Q    And  the  Keeley  option  was  at  an  end  on  the  1st  of  July  ? 

A  Yes,  and  Mr.  Gleason  would  not  give  him  any  more  time 
on  it  since  I  had  shown  up. 

Q  From  your  experience  as  a  land  buyer,  would  you  say 
that  the  option  was  of  any  value  whatever  on  account  of  the 
terms  of  it 


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EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 


and  the  short  time  it  had  to  run  ? 

A    I  know  I  would  not  have  wanted  it. 

Q   You  considered  it  worthless? 

A  Why,  it  might  have  been  worth  some  money  to  someone, 
but  it  wasn't  worth  anything  to  me  because  we  had  a  good 
many  thousand  acres  of  our  own  to  sell.  It  helped  me  to  get 
Gleason's  option. 

RE-DIRECT  EXAMINATION 
BY  MR.  WINSTON: 

Q  I  will  ask  you  to  state  all  the  circumstances  that  in- 
duced you  to  send  him  this  $500? 

Mr.  Norton :  That  is  objected  to  as  a  repetition  and  not 
proper  re-direct  examination. 

A   Because  I  felt  Keeley  had  been  fair  with  us. 

Mr.  Winston:    Q    In  what?     How  was  he  fair? 

A   In  helping  us  along  with  this  deal  and  other  deals. 

Q    In  helping  you  along  with  the  Gleason  deal? 

A   Yes,  sir. 

Q    That  is  one  of  the  places  in  which  he  was  fair  to  you? 

A    That  was  one  of  the  deals  in  which  he  had  helped  us. 

Q  He  had  helped  you  in  the  Gleason  deal  and  that  was 
the  reason,  together  with,  the  other  things,  that  you  sent  him 
the  check? 

A  Yes,  sir ;  and  he  had  also  put  me  next  to  other  ranches 
around  there ;  he  would  tell  me  the  character  of  the  land,  and 


210 


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EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 


he  told  me  all  of  the  good  properties  around  there  and 
whether  the  parties  were  putting  the  right  prices  on  them. 
He  wanted  to  get  us  into  that  country  and  get  us  to  operate 
in  land,  as  it  would  make  the  lands  more  valuable. 

Q  How  about  this  deal  of  your  father's  that  you  spoke  of? 
You  do  not  know  what  that  deal  is  ? 

A    No,  sir. 

Mr.  Norton :  This  witness  desires  to  get  away  on  the  train 
which  leaves  within  a  half  hour.  Are  you  willing  to  waive 
the  signature  of  the  witness  to  this  deposition? 

Mr.  Winston:  Under  the  circumstances,  I  am. 

Whereupon  the  signature  of  the  witness  to  this 
deposition  was  waived  by  stipulation  of  the  parties. 


State  of  Montana,  ) 

)  ss. 
County  of  Lewis  and  Clark,     ) 

I,  Robert  F.  Rose,  a  duly  commissioned  Notary  Public  of 
the  state  of  Montana,  in  and  for  the  County  of  Lewis  and 
Clark,  do  hereby  certify  that  pursuant  to  and  by  virtue  of  the 
attached  stipulation  made  and  entered  into  by  and  between  the 
attorneys  for  the  respective  parties  in  the  case  of  Robert  W. 
Bride,  plaintiff,  versus  Charles  L.  Keeley,  defendant,  now 
pending  in  the  District  Court  of  the  Tenth  Judicial  District 
of  the  State  of  Montana,  in  and  for  the  County  of  Meagher, 


218 


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EXPERT  COURT  REPORTER 


I  took  the  deposition  of  Lawrence  Bates,  a  witness  of  lawful 
age,  named  in  said  stipulation,  on  behalf  of  the  plain  til?,  on 
the  21st  day  of  October,  1912,  beginning  at  the  hour  of  nine 
o'clock  a.  m.,  and  concluding  at  10:28  a.  m.,  of  said  day. 

I  further  certify  that  there  were  present  at  said  hearing 
Mr.  0.  B.  Winston,  attorney  for  the  plaintiff,  and  Mr.  Charles 
C.  Norton,  attorney  for  the  defendant. 

I  further  certify  that  before  the  taking  of  the  deposition 
the  said  Lawrence  Bates  was  duly  sworn  by  me  to  tell  the 
truth,  the  whole  truth,  and  nothing  but  the  truth  concerning 
the  matters  in  controversy  in  said  case,  and  about  which  he 
might  be  interrogated  by  the  attorneys  representing  the  re- 
spective parties;  that  the  said  deposition  was  conducted  by 
oral  questions  and  answers  and  said  oral  questions  to  and 
answers  of  said  witness  were  taken  by  me  in  shorthand  and 
transcribed  on  the  typewriter  under  my  direction  and  super- 
vision; that  the  foregoing  is  a  true  and  correct  transcript  of 
the  shorthand  notes  taken  by  me  of  the  questions  and 
answers,  and  objections  and  proceedings  had  at  the  time  of 
taking  said  deposition. 

I  further  certify  that  I  have  no  interest  in  any  manner 
whatsoever  in  the  outcome  of  said  proceeding;  that  I  am  not 
related  to,  in  the  employ  of,  or  in  any  way  connected  with  the 
parties  to  said  proceeding  or  the  attorneys  for  the  respective 
parties. 

I  further  certify  that  by  stipulation  of  the  attorneys  repre- 
senting the  respective  parties  to  said  proceedings,  the  signa- 
ture of  said  witness  to  said  deposition  was  waived. 

In  witness  whereof  I  have  hereunto  set  my  hand  and  affixed 
my  notarial  seal  this  23rd  day  of  October,  1912. 


Notary  Public. 
(Notarial  Seal) 

My  Commission  expires  September  1,  1915. 


220 


You  Need 
Never    Forget! 

You  need  never  suffer  the  embarrassment  and  loss 
which  is  sure  to  result  from  an  untrained  memory.  You 
can  have  a  memory  that  will  be  always  dependable — 
and  here  is  the  man  who  will  give  it  to  you. 

William  Berol  Has  the  Most  Wonderful 
Memory  Ever  Known 

HE  can  give  the  population  of  any  place  in  America  of  over 
5,000— 

HE  can  give  every  important  date  in  the  world's  history — 

HE  has  300,000  Facts  and  Figures  stored  away  in  his  brain. 

A  few  years  ago  Mr.  Berol 's  memory  was  distressingly  poor. 
His  amazing  efficiency  was  developed  through  his  own  simple, 
practical  method. 

His  system  is  being  taught  with  great  success  to  large  classes 
in  educational  institutions  in  New  York  City.  You  can 
learn  it  easily,  quickly,  by  mail — 

Berol  Can  Build  YOUR  Memory 
So  That  It  Need  Never  Fail 

You  will  be  able  to  recall  Names,  Faces,  Dates,  Telephone 
Numbers;  to  remember  facts  in  a  book  after  one  reading;  to 
recall  any  episode  that  you  wish.  You  can  become  a  clear 
thinker,  and  in  public  speaking  never  be  at  a  loss  for  a  word. 
His  simple  system  will  cure  mind-wandering  and  teach  con- 
centration. Give  him  a  few  spare  minutes  daily,  at  home,  and 
you  will  be  astonished  by  the  beneficial  results.  His  promise  to 
you  is  substantial ed  by  what  his  system  has  done  for  him. 

Write  to-day  for  free  information  of  this  man's  wonderful 
memory  and  our  offer  to  YOU. 

For  full  particulars  rvrlle  to  Department  905 
Funk  &  Wagnalls  Company,  354-360  Fourth  Ave.,N.  Y. 


"I   CAN   MAKE  YOU  A 

Convincing  Speaker' ' 

SAYS    GRENVILLE    KLEISER 

You  will  be  called  upon  to  speak  in  public — sometime — some- 
where. It  may  be  at  a  business  affair,  a  dinner  or  other  social 
function,  at  a  political  meeting,  or  in  your  lodge-room.  Can 
you  "say  your  say"  confidently  and  forcefully? 

Here  is  the  man  who  can  give  you  this  ability.  Grenville 
Kleiser's  wonderfully  practical  Mail  Course  in  Public  Speak- 
ing takes  only  fifteen  minutes  of  your  time  daily  in  your  home 
or  office,  and  it  teaches  you  quickly — 

How  to  Make  After-Dinner  How  to   Develop  Power  and 
Speeches —  Personality — 

How  to  Propose  and  Respond  to  How  to  Improve  Your  Memory — 

Toasts —  How   to    Increase   Your   Vocabu- 

How  to  Tell  Stories —  lary — 

How  to  Make  Political  How  to  Acquire  Poise  and  Self- 
Speeches  Confidence — 

How  to  Sell   More  Goods —  How  to  Speak  and  Write  English 

How  to  Address  Board  Meet-  Correctly — 

ings  How  to  Earn   More — Achieve 

More. 

There  is  absolutely  no  uncertainty — no  guesswork — about  Mr. 
Kleiser's  methods.  He  has  had  years  of  experience  as  a  teacher 
of  public  speaking  in  leading  educational  institutions,  is  the  founder 
and  director  of  the  Public  Speaking  Club  of  America  and  Great 
Britain,  and  is  generally  recognized  as  the  foremost  teacher  of 
speech  culture. 

His  Persona>  Mail  Course  is  his  life  -work.  Into  it  he  has  put 
the  ripe  fruits  of  his  many  years  of  experience  as  a  teacher. 

We  will  send  descriptive  literature  showing  how  Grenville 
Kleiser's  Mail  Course  not  only  will  teach  you  how  to  speak  with- 
out notes,  but  how  it  will  increase  your  self-confidence  and  give 
you  a  good  memory,  build  up  and  augment  your  personal  power  and 
influence,  and  improve  your  use  of  the  English  language;  how 
it  will  teach  you  to  argue  effectively  and  icinninyJy — present  a 
proposition  logically  and  forcefully;  how  it  will  teach  you  to  hold 
attention — to  think  on  your  feet.  This  Course  will  bring  out  the 
best  that  is  in  you,  by  making  you  a  positive,  clear-cut,  convincing 
thinker  and  speaker. 

Remember,  this  Course  does  not  cost  from  $40.00  to  $100.00  and 
upward,  the  tuition  fees  usually  asked  for  correspondence  instruc- 
tion. It  costs  very  little  for  the  value  received.  The  price  to  you 
will  be  only  aboift  one-fifth  of  what  you  would  pay  Mr.  Kleiser 
for  studio  instruction — and  the  terms  of  payment  are  very  easy. 

By  all  means  write  for  free  information  at  once.  No  agent  will 
call  upon  you  nor  will  you  obligate  yourself  in  any  way  by  making 
this  request. 

For  full  particulars  Tvrile  to  Department  906 
Funk  &  Wagnalls  Company,  354-360  Fourth  Ave.,  N.  Y. 


University  of  California 

SOUTHERN  REGIONAL  LIBRARY  FACILITY 

305  De  Neve  Drive  -  Parking  Lot  17  •  Box  951388 

LOS  ANGELES,  CALIFORNIA  90095-1388 

Return  this  material  to  the  library  from  which  it  was  borrowed. 


Fon 


'TNTVBRSITY  ot  CALIFORNIA 

A  T 


A     000  571  378     9 


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